Kudos on the disambiguation gag. :D --DrSpengler 00:46, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

it says he's a Canadian artists, wouldn't the slang abbreviation "Can artist" be more effective? btw that quote was found by me I am great--Zodberg 02:37, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

I missed that business. What's the full story with Alex Milne? --Ratbat 02:05, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

[1] --ItsWalky 02:16, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
Hey, shouldn't we have this LITG article "External links"ed from both Pat & Alex's pages? -- M Sipher

At TFcon 2007, Alex vented his heavy distaste for Pat Lee, even so much so that if they ever met again..... he then trailed off at that point (it was during the artist panel), not a happy camper thanks to the "SUPASTAR!" ProtomanXRED

Cartoon before toys?

Can anyone confirm the "He believes that the Transformers cartoon was so amazing that it was only a matter of time before the toys were made" line? It was added by an anonymous user, so I'm tempted to delete it, but I want it to be true. So... reference? - Jackpot 20:01, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

I... want to say it was a pre-DW-gets-the-license interview. We should most definitely source it on this page once we track it down. --M Sipher 20:36, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
There's discussion of it on ATT from March 2001, but not an actual link to the interview. Definitely makes reference to the "cartoons first, matter-of-time" quote. --Thylacine 2000 20:41, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
Which really shows the reason why Dreamwave continuity was as animation-centric as it was.--Rosicrucian 20:45, 5 August 2007 (UTC)


I've seen on a few pages when Pat Lee is mentionned the term "serfdom" is inserted... what does it mean, exactly? --Detour 19:53, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

In this context, his notion that people should keep working for him merely on the promise that someday he'll pay them. Maybe.--Rosicrucian 19:55, 4 October 2007 (UTC)


1000% more informative now, Nevermore. Damned good job.--Rosicrucian 20:11, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

Hell, I'd nominate this for a featured article now. - Chris McFeely 20:56, 6 October 2007 (UTC)


I think we need more pictures in this article, if only to break up the text abit. How about funny photos of Lee or particularly shoddy Transformers art (assuming he drew it)? --FFN 14:11, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Hmm, maybe a few of Transformers with the gigantic feet? --MistaTee 14:49, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
I added in the extremely short-bus robot that was his design for the Fallen before Wildman cleaned it up.--RosicrucianTalk 16:09, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
I think the number of images is okay right now... I wouldn't want to see more than 2-3 put in at this point. It would start getting cluttered. --Steve-o 22:10, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Andy Wildman

What's the source for the altering of his art? We've, like, seen his pencils. They don't look any different. --ItsWalky 16:49, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

I think he meant that Wildman made the Fallen look better than Lee's original concept. I can agree with that statement. --MistaTee 17:14, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
Yes, but Walky is instead asking about the allegation that the inkers changed Wildman's art in The Dark Ages.--RosicrucianTalk 17:16, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
would this be an appropriate reference? [2] --MistaTee 17:26, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
I don't see anything that makes a good case. There's some questions asked that state the alteration as a given, and when Matt Moylan is pressed about it, he doesn't recall such a thing. I think this is just a run-away rumor based on Wildman choosing to draw his TF hands like Figueroa's. --ItsWalky 17:46, 12 November 2007 (UTC)


Okay, I don't know if it was a mistake or a joke, but the "they much oftener succeed thrugh failures" quote isn't actually Pat Lee's originally. A google search turned up several attributions to Samuel Smiles. --Nemesis Primal 22:21, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Recent activities section?

In light of recent pictures of Lee drawing on somebody's apartment wall, should we do some kind of 'Pat Lee's recent activities' section? --FFN 04:53, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

I'd say not. It's fan-art. Why do we need to mention it? --Sntint 05:28, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
Because it's funny? Besides, in presenting the case against Pat Lee, we make do mention of things that happened after he was done with Tranformers. --FFN 05:39, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia trolling

We have two sections mentioning his wikipedia trolling (or somebody doing it for him. Which one should we keep? --FFN 11:19, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

New sources

I just thought it might be interesting to rework this article, considering the number of new sources that have popped up in regards to the "NPOV" B.S. going on over at Wikipedia. We've got sources from Don, Guido, Milne, Patyk, Raiz... I think we should put em to good use on Pat's article and on Dreamwave's as well. --Detour 19:32, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

I'd certainly support this. We are an appropriate venue, and the tone of the article already shows we're not pulling any punches.--RosicrucianTalk 19:53, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
As the person who dug up those sources for the Wikipedia article, now seeing them all dismissed as "unreliable", I'm totally in favor of this notion. I'm willing to help out in any way I can.--Nevermore 00:25, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
Always funny that Wikipedia can wax loquacious on, say, Naruto but anything even remotely controversial gets neutered down to the stub level.--RosicrucianTalk 00:29, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
90% of the articles on Wikipedia falls into one of two categories: a) Unmoderated ones that are horribly long and contain laods of false bullshit, and b) overmoderated ones that trim down anything to a stub-class article because some all-high-and-mighty admin is on a "THE RRRRULES!" trip.--Nevermore 00:34, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
So, updated. As the author of the (now deleted) section at Wikipedia, I gave myself permission to directly copy some of its content into this article. I also added a lot of other shit. Does anyone still have a link to the Adny Wildman pencils for War Within vol. 2?--Nevermore 11:18, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Returning to Canada

From Pat's Alivenotdead blog:

"I will be heading back to Toronto middle of next month to hang out with family "

Which authorities should be notified? And any idea how to notify them? --Detour 11:51, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Given its Canada, there are only the Mounties. --FFN 15:23, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
Notify of what? That a citizen of their country is returning from Hong Kong?--Nevermore 17:44, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
Something about creditors who're owed money, I think.... -- Repowers 18:02, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
Have those creators taken legal action against Pat Lee? Is there currently an arrest warrant on his name?--Nevermore 18:06, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
No idea. This is entirely someone-said-that-someone-said, far as I know. -- Repowers 18:17, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

possible source on not paying

I seem to recall someone from IDW mentioning that they cannot reprint some Dreamwave issues because the creators were not paid. Does anyone remember something like that, and if so, where from? --FortMax 19:59, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Of course that'd still be entirely unsuitable for Wikipedia unless a newspaper were to report that IDW did indeed say this at a convention or a messgae board, and even then out would be the evil conglomerative Dreamwave (with Roger Lee sharing the blame) responsible, not Pat himself.--Nevermore 23:25, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

"Pat Lee once set a hill on fire"?

I followed the link, but I still don't get it. Was something removed? GrantB 17:19, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Evidently. I've never been able to hang around long enough at his old site to try and fix the link, though. --FFN 17:32, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
Check here, "Most hated memory: When I started a hill on fire."... Yeah. --Detour 19:55, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
Nope. He must've removed it. Damn. --GrantB 23:27, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
No, it's still there. Look at the middle of the page, in the image where Pat is wearing that ridiculous yellow jacket and that stupid black cap. Right next to it is a bit of profile info. You should find the fire-hill mention right there. --Detour 01:29, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
Oh, you're right. Thanks. I was text-searching, so I didn't see it. --GrantB 16:36, 22 June 2008 (UTC)



Anyone got an idea how and where best to put a brief text blurb about this shocking turn of events?--Nevermore 21:38, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

I don't know. Quite frankly, I'm hoping I can find a phone number or an email address or something I can contact someone at Hasbro with to try and get the full story. On that note, hasn't anyone ever tried to ask some of the people at Hasbro what the deal is with Lee and the debts, like at Botcon or something? --Detour 21:49, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
I remember asking Alex Milne on if Pat still owed him money. That's the closest I got. However, I'm curious how the question hasn't been raised at conventions, given the decline of Dreamwave was a good while ago. Metal Gear NOIZE 21:53, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
MORE OF THIS SHIT--Nevermore 21:58, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
This is ridiculous to say the least... Seriously, phone #, email, anything???? --Detour 22:00, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
As I noted in my edit of this article, it is likely Hasbro Hong Kong, not Hasbro US, who may not know exactly what is going on. --FFN 22:10, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
Well even then... there should be a number I can contact Hasbro's offices with to let them know? --Detour 22:13, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
I would imagine the wiigiis and Kickback respectively are will be contacting their friends at Hasbro about this. --FFN 22:38, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
How can you be so certain? --Detour 22:47, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

As others have noted in the thread on Allspark, this is just with the Hong Kong division of Hasbro, is only promotional materials, and is likely because he's an artist their audience will recognize that probably will work for a bowl of ramen these days. I am vaguely amused that he drew purse-snatcher Movieverse characters, though.--RosicrucianTalk 22:50, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Still, the dude owes Hasbro HK's parent company money, last I checked. --FFN 22:52, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
Might, or he might benefit from the distance he put between himself and Dreamwave after the bankruptcy proceedings. I'm not saying that's exactly honest, but he may have no legal or financial obligations to them at this point. Obviously Hasbro HK didn't get the memo that he's a bum. Also, I hate his blogsite and its constant need to get me to join a community of shitty Hong Kong pseudocelebrities.--RosicrucianTalk 22:56, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

New content

I do admit that this article was a little overly critical of Pat Lee, but lets face, a lot of what happened with Dreamwave was his fault, and a lot of the artists have hostile feelings toward him. I understand that this wiki will probably try for a neutral point of view, but I for one refuse to whitewash pages to make people seem like victims. Tone it down, yes. Make him completely flawless? No way. -- SFH 23:19, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

I completely agree - I for one more or less liked the old version, as he kinda really is a dick. The problem (and the reason the page was blanked to begin with) is it gets people in an uproar over libel and starts really pointless and distracting edit wars. Would you like to take a crack at creating a new version of the article in a sandbox? Shawn (talk) 23:28, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
I'd say ignore the ip that was making libil accusations. Same for Floro Dery. Hell, Dery himself has trolled this place countless times.--FortMax 23:35, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
Yep, he has - but it's less a worry about what people think rather than what people do - while people spend all day reverting edit wars and blocking users for being jerks, they could be using that time to make useful edits. Keeping things more or less neutral in the articles is in the style of the wiki, anyway - it's always better to keep little bits of snark in captions where they belong. Shawn (talk) 23:54, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
If you're worried about the snark and the vandalism on this article... why not just start off by LOCKING it for the time being after reverting it to the pre-vandalism article and have done with it? When things calm down a smidge, you can clean it up from there. - Vanguard 23:56, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
If your main concern is "Someone might want to edit it because he feels like it", then I doubt any negative content, no matter how well-sourced, would NOT evoke the ire of those people.-- 14:01, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

ANYway, here's my pass at recreating the article. I took most of the unnecessary mean-spirited stuff and kept in the facts - it's still pretty clear from what's there that he did not generally act in people's best interests. And I only changed one caption, with regards to his artwork, to keep it in line with what's actually in the article itself. Any comments? Additions? Please feel free to add input there. None of this could be considered libelous now, I hope, as the more opinionated comments have been left out in favor of facts. Shawn (talk) 19:34, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

edit: Would help if I included a link, hm? It's been a long week... Shawn (talk) 20:18, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
That's fine with me. It retains the facts without any signs of a vendetta. I'm for it. -- SFH 22:35, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
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