Talk: Nemesis Prime (Universe 2003)

Willis, you're on your own if you want to bitch him out over this one. Because I always thought the argument "There are TWO evil clones of Optimus Prime created by Unicron named nemesis Prime in the same color scheme" was stupid-ass. TFU NP makes more SENSE (being a clone of Optimus Prime) if he's a new form of truck-clone, not a clone of Op that's randomly also a mammoth. -Derik 05:50, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Nemesis Prime is Aaron Archer's pet character for Armada that he had personally inserted into the storyline towards the end of Armada. The TFU origin for Nemesis Prime is always he one he had intended also for the Armada character. They are the same being...TFU Nemesis Prime is part of the Cybertron comic story, which is the third part of the Unicron Trilogy, which debuted Nemesis Prime in Armada. --Bodycount

Bodycount, you are completely wrong on every count. Armada Nemesis Prime is just a puppet of Sideways (and by extension, Unicron). TFU Nemesis Prime has a totally different origin and has nothing to do with him. --ItsWalky 05:56, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

You are completely wrong on every account. Why don't you go make cartoons and leave this stuff to the people who are actually fans of the series. The linkage comic features "Scourge" as a universe-hopping herald of Unicron that uses the Dark Matrix(Doomstones) to destruct other planets. I'm going to change the entry over and over until you get tired of it. Keep your bias to yourself --Bodycount

I'm well aware of the Linkage story, and as I am an admin, and you just threatened to change the entry until you get your way, I think that counts as vandalism, so I think you can go away for now. Bye! --ItsWalky 05:59, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

BC, I'm gonna have to back Walky on the Archer part- but he's really oversimplifyign about NP as Sideways's puppet. The Armada MtMtE seems to e4xpand him a bit more in the direction of the Japanese interpetation of NP as 'Scourge.' (The Armada MtMTE entries which flatly 'could not' exist within comics continuity seemed ot kinda shrug, and simply reflect cartoon continuity, as they do here.) -Derik 05:59, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Careful BC! Willis is known to come after those who challenge his authority on Wikipedia with broken bottles!

Wait, is this some sort of elaborate performance-art piece David? -Derik 06:02, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

As someone who communicated with Ichikawa on the damn Linkage story every month, including lots of tidbits that never made it into the series, I can safely say that you pulled "universe-hopping" out of your ass. And the Doomstone is NOT a Matrix, nor is it used to destroy planets. --M Sipher 06:04, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

No, the Doomstone is used to destoy spititual dimensions, which is sooo different than 'unleash the dead matrix and destroy Primus.' (Sorry Siph, i happen to agree that the two NP's make more SENSE as 1 character.) -Derik 06:07, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

It's not my fault you believe something inane and wrong. "Similar" does not equal "same". --M Sipher 06:10, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Whether it makes sense (to you) or not, I think considering the plotters of BOTH stories agree they're separate guys... To me, their being two different guys is pretty darn self-evident. --ItsWalky 06:12, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Which is why I largely gave up arguing that the two clones of Optimus Prime named Nemesis Prime with identical color schemes and spiritual-entity-destroying devices in their chests were the same being. Because apparently that is crazy-talk.

Oh sure, Nemesis Prime is the manifestation of a energy being that can assume different forms, and he serves a god known to jump make his minions jump continuities... but clearly I'm making completely unwarranted connections here.

(I know others disagree, so I don't try to put it forward as fact in the article, but jeeze, don't try to pretend there's not a damn good argument for it.) -Derik 06:25, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

You can make a good argument for a lot of things, if you ignore certain stuff. The two Nemesis Primes COULD have been written as the same guy, easily, due to their simularities, but they were not. We gotta deal. --ItsWalky 06:31, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Please clarigfy for this worthless fool- when were they written as different characters? Was it in one of the issues of the comic Mastercolelctor did not deign to deliver to me?

(Note: there is an argument that does effectively anihilate my own, I'm just curious if you're too tightly wond up in your own to see it or not.)-Derik 06:40, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

I think it was when A-NP ran around like a gorilla and grunted nonsense, and U-NP talks in real sentences, has real dialogue, a different origin, and a different doohickey. It also helps that despite how far out of its way the Cybertron fanclub comic continually goes to throw all the UT stories together, not once is one Nemesis Prime linked to the other. His exhaustive profile write-up doesn't mention Armada either. I think that would be important. --ItsWalky 06:49, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

He had an exhaustive profile? Was that in one of the issues Mastercolelctor didnt' deign to deliver to me? (See, I blame my own ignorance on unlovabble fuck-ups!) And yeah, the verbal thing was the best argument against it, and probbaly that would have cut this dialogue short 10 posts ago. -Derik 06:53, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

By that logic, the fact that in the club comic, Soundwave talks like the G1 character, it signifies that he is not the same Soundwave as in the Cybertron cartoon because that character speaks like an MC/Radio host? Besides, the Armada episode was titled "Puppet"...Sideways was controlling tbe being against it's will. Most of the gorilla stuff was a joke from Sideways, hence his laughter. It's obvious that Nemesis Prime was trying to reject the effects Unicron was doing to him and had to be controlled by Sideways, and by the time Cybertron happens, he's completely spoiled and no longer battles his Unicron-reprogramming. Seriously Walky, if a slight shift in character in the same universe to you signifies that it's not the same character, I think you need to step back and think about what character development means...like it or not, that Australian speaking guy in Cybertron is still Jetfire, that soft-spoken brat is still Hot Shot, and that loud-mouth arrogant air fighter is still Wing Saber. These things happen when the writers that are handling the new stories aren't properly educated on the previous stories. I dislike this sort of continuity error, but Nemesis Prime is at least easy to explain...a pawn of a Dark God can have his mind taken over, it's happened with just about every herald Unicron has used.

-BC

I think what helps is that the creators of the Club magazine story said he wasn't the same NP. There is more at hand here than the fiction portrayal. --ItsWalky 17:39, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

I'd like to see where they've said this, out of curiousity, although it won't really change how I view the character. Also, have they mentioned anything concerning the colapse of the Energon sun/black hole and how Megatron/Starscream were revived?