Jazz's crackhead Star TV name, I could've sworn it was "Maestro", not "Marshall". Any agreement on this or am I going to have to summon the energy to pop in my DVD? Please don't make me do that. Please. --DrSpengler 02:56, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

I still haven't seen the Star TV dubs yet, making me feel special, yet missing out on the jokes :( --FFN 14:15, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

In fact, there is not one Autobot who doesn't like or admire Jazz.
What about Grimlock? --UndeadScottsman 14:09, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, Jazz is good at what he does. Maybe Grimlock 'admires' him for that? --FFN 14:15, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
They seemed pretty antagonistic towards one another the end of the G1 Marvel run. Plus I think a "Except for Grimlock." statement would be humerous enough to warrent it's existance. --UndeadScottsman 14:18, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
I think you can hate somebody (or at least dislike them) yet at the same time admire them for whatever they're good at. --FFN 14:28, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
Whoops, I was getting Prowl confused with Jazz.. Carry on. --UndeadScottsman 16:31, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Movie move?

Just as Bumblebee was moved to Bumblebee (G1), so too should this article be moved to Jazz (G1)? - RolonBolon 00:29, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Deputy Commander?

Was he one? 04:32, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

According to "The Autobot Who's Who" in the 1986 annual he is joint 2nd in command with Prowl.


Jazz says a lot of things. Are we going to link to Meriam-Webster for all of them? He didn't make up the term as far as I know. --M Sipher 09:14, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Pink variant

Shouldn't this article have some info on that infamous limited-edition pink variant of Binaltech Meister that Takara did as a cross-promotion with some J-pop singer?--TVsGrady 19:00, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

Face ruined forever?

Would a comparison photo of the G1 toy's face degrading from the original to the Encore reissue be a worthy addition to this article? Takeshi357 18:16, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

New Mold?

Doesn`t the legends jazz vaugely resemble legends barricade? Just asking--Autobotx1010 05:51, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

P.S., Hasbro said no animated character would get the universe treatment, yet jazz, prime, and megs are. Then again, prime and megs were obious exceptions, but jazz?

Unicron Trilogy stuff

Is that really necessary? The Armada instance is just a character model reuse. Armada was famous for that. The Cybertron thing looks to be just an easter egg and nothing more. He was never named nor explicitly referred to as Jazz by anyone. --Detour 17:36, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

I object to the section's removal without polling for consensus. One appearance is an easter egg. Two is something worth documenting. -Derik 23:26, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
Except the two weren't made by the same writers, the same studio and weren't even part of the same continuity until retcons took care of that. Plus, the article is called Jazz (G1). Put it in the Trivia section maybe but not in the fiction. --Detour 23:44, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
One appearance is an easter egg. Two appearances is... two easter eggs. Yes, Derik, it's something worth documenting... as two meaningless easter eggs, something for the trivia section. --KilMichaelMcC 23:49, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
So, like, the Four wise elders page (assuming it ever gets made) can't mention that one of thsoe wise elders later ended up as a corpse in Unicron's stomach? Not part of a crowd of corpses-- the only one. (The crowd was from the alternate timeline.)
Because they're "meaningless easter eggs" that can't amount to anything? And the fact they have different authors invalidates any connection that might naturally exist within the canon, because meaning cannot exist without author intent? Am I understanding your position correctly? -Derik 23:56, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
Difference is, Air Raid's G2 cameo took place in the same continuity. Jazz's, on the other hand... Plus, are you saying the people writing Galaxy Force actually watched the preceeding series? --Detour 23:59, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
Derik, I see no reason whatsoever to believe that the Ancient-Guy-Looks-Like-Jazz from Cybertron and the Absorbed-By-Unicron-Guy-Looks-Like-Jazz from Armada automatically MUST be the same character. It can certainly be noted as a trivia item that they might be the same, but while also noting that the odds of this connection being intentional are roughly zero. --KilMichaelMcC 00:07, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
You're both arguing that no connection can exist without author intent. And since both authors didn't intend this to be the same guy, there can be no connection. I have a problem with that.
The peopel who did Armada chose to use Jazz. The people who did Cybertron chose to use Jazz. If Chris Sarracini chose to use Jazz in one story, and then Brad Mick chose to use Jazz in a later story set in the same continuity-- are they not the same character just because Brad Mick wasn't aware Chris Sarracini had previously used Jazz?
I have no problem if you want to say this guy was not G1 Jazz (I think you're wrong, but there's no real in-continuity reason to elevate my opinion on the matter above the far-simpler answer that he's a new character of indeterminate name unique to the Unicron Trilogy.) But you are both going a step further to claim that both instances of what appears to be the same character cannot be the same guy without author intent.
The Unicron Trilogy cartoon timeline clearly indicates that Unicron attacked Cybertron around the same period the Four wise elders initiated the space bridge program-- so why is it "crazy talk" to think that one of the four elders ending up in Unicron's stomach is the same guy, rather than his identical twin?
Basically, while I feel you have a legitimate point to assert about not including the wise elder in G1 Jazz's profile (albeit one I adisagree with,) I think you're reaching far beyond that point and imposing an unnatural reading of the canon, one seeped in a justification of author intent-- something TT1 has traditionally not considered a legitimate sole basis for constructing an argument. -Derik 00:47, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
Well what you're forgetting is Armada reused character models at random, whereas Jazz was thrown in Cybertron as a deliberate easter egg. You're also forgetting he can't be Jazz (G1), because the scenes took place in the Unicron trilogy. --Detour 00:53, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
Generation 1 animators would pull character models at random to fill scenes. Does that mean that Gears "wasn't really there" unless he was speaking? I find this argument spurious.
The G1 Jazz argument is separate. I would clearly answer by pointing out that Sideways has crossed between the Generation 1, RiD and UT continuities families-- not even multiple versions of the same character (Like comics vs. cartoon Jazz,) but as a single character. Such travel is hardly a concrete dealbreaker. And while I am willing to concede that the Elder isn't Jazz (or at least should not be documented as Jazz without evidence indicating they are the same character,) I fail to see how that makes the Elder a different character from the one in Unicron's tummy.
Oh- and if Armada-Jazz can't be G1 Jazz because "Armada reused character models at random," does that mean that because Cybertron didn't re-use character models at random that the Wise Elder is G1 Jazz? I just ask because... that would seem to be the logical correlary to the author-intent-based argument you're putting forward. -Derik 01:12, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
I am NOT arguing that NO connection can exist without author intent, I am arguing that THIS connection DOESN'T. --KilMichaelMcC 01:16, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
When you say "this," which argument do you mean exactly? Because Detour's gone a couple rounds where he keeps re-refuting the "is G1 Jazz" point (which I conceded as indefensible from the get-go,) in order to prove his assertion that the two instances of G1 Jazz in the Unicron Trilogy must be separate characters from each other. So which of those are you talking about now? -Derik 01:21, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
The part where Armada-Jazz-Corpse and Cybertron-Ancient-Jazz are automatically the same character. I see no reason whatsoever to think such a thing. (The part where this character is somehow also G1 Jazz is ridiculous on its face and doesn't really even require any argument be made against it.) --KilMichaelMcC 01:25, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
Well then clearly there's been a misunderstanding somewhere because all I've been fighting for is the "Armada/Cybertron instances of Jazz's character model aren't actually G1 Jazz". --Detour 01:27, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
Well, my initial objection was removal without consensus (since such a discussion would have established where it should have been documented,) to which you replied saying that unless it was the same author behind both appearances of the UT character(s,) they could not be the same character. I freely admit the guy's not G1 Jazz (or at least that there's no reasonable basis to think he is.) But I've been grinding my gears over your blanket statement that the 2 UT appearances cannot be the same guy... on the basis of author intent. (TT1 doesn't generally treat author intent as a good basis for making an argument.) If you wanted to argue why you didn't think they were the same guy-- fine, we could have a discussion about it weighting the relative benefits. (I've been trying to have one, you might want to look up and re-read what I say about he Unicron Trilogy timeline, and Unicron attacking Cybertron around the timeframe of the Four wise elders,) but blanketly declaring they can not be because the writers didn't intend it? ...that is not a good argument. -Derik 01:34, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
Actually, what I meant to say was that those two appearances of Jazz's character model couldn't possibly be easter egg rationale'd into being G1 Jazz. That was the sole point of my argument. --Detour 01:49, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
That these two Jazzes, G1 and Guy Who Shows Up In That Shot, are in two separate continuity families, they'd be considered two different guys anyway, unless we could prove galaxy hopping. That's just how this wiki works. And since we can't, there you go. --ItsWalky 02:04, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Two points:

  • So, like, the Four wise elders page (assuming it ever gets made) can't mention that one of thsoe wise elders later ended up as a corpse in Unicron's stomach? Not part of a crowd of corpses-- the only one.
  • The Unicron Trilogy cartoon timeline clearly indicates that Unicron attacked Cybertron around the same period the Four wise elders initiated the space bridge program
    • First, both events are listed under "pre-history," which doesn't necessarily indicate they occurred around the same period. I for one have never thought of them as such, as in my mind the space bridge/colonization program was much further back in time than the Omega Supreme/combiners/super energon pool era.
    • Second, Unicron attacked Cyberton then? Says who? I checked the ep on YouTube, and according to Optimus, eons ago Omega Supreme "fought Unicron while searching out Energon." That doesn't necessarily mean that Unicron attacked the planet, their battle could have been off in space somewhere. --KilMichaelMcC 02:17, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
Hrm,w as that Perceptor? I just assumed it was a very off-model Jazz, especially since the kids refer to the corpse, singular, later in the episode.
Can I invite a reviewing of the relevant Armada episode? (~5:15)
I think that Jazz's use here has a degree of intentionality to it because 1) Jazz is supposedly the sole corpse in Unicron's tummy (at least the script thinks so)-- or at least one of two. There's another episode with hordes of such cocooned corpses, but that was an alternate timeline. 2) This makes Jazz the only G1 cameo to make his way into a background painting, and it's been my impression that background paintings are more, um... "planned" than animation cells. (Certainly they're less prone to errors.) 3) Given the prominence and recognizability of Jazz's corpse, I don't think it's impossible that the Cybertron writer chose him for the quartet of elders based on this previous use. (Jazz is kinda the odd man out among the trio of matrix-holders.) 4) Regardless, I also don't think the Cybertron writer needs to have been aware of Jazz's Armada appearance for them to be the same characters and 5) the two appearances certainly don't create any continuity problems internal to themselves- since the Elders and Unicron appear to have overlap around that point in the UT timeline, it is not unreasonable to think they could have encountered one another, with Jazz ending up mummified. In the absence of a continuity conflict, two appearances by identical characters be assumed to represent the same character. Just like we assume the nonspeaking character who looks like Gears in episode X actually is Gears, not an unrelated character who looks identical to him.
Also, can anyone make out what Wheeljack calls the parasites at ~9:10? It's driving me nuts. -Derik 02:25, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
RE: Unicron vs. Cybertron... Super Link more explicitly lays out that Omega Supreme and Primus fought Unicron during this era. (Had to go back to the source for that one, heh!) I'll more explicitly source that part of the timeline page. -Derik 02:40, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
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