Talk: Jake (Animorphs)

Should we even be having individual pages for Animorphs? I would vote no, and that they should all be covered on a single Animorphs page.

If we do end up keeping pages like this though, I strongly feel that they do NOT belong in the "Humans" category. That should be a category for Human characters who exist in the Transformers universe(s), which Animorphs characters don't --KilMichaelMcC 04:02, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

I strongly disagree on all counts. As you probably could have guessed. --Andrusi 04:53, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

In the one hand, I agree with Kil. On the other hand- the Mutants were retooled Animorphs toys, so they are (technically) 'fair game' for redecoing... yeah, individual human pages make sense. -Derik 05:09, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

I don't really see what the origins of the Mutants toys has to do with anything. As much I really do think that all Animorphs business oughta to be covered in a single article, I feel even stronger that Animorphs characters should not be treated as being on equal footing with characters who actually exist in the Transformers multiverse. If we keep these individual articles for each Animorph, then "Animorphs," as a sub-category of "Toys," should be the only category they are listed in. --KilMichaelMcC 05:47, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

This sounds a lot like redefining what the "Humans" category means for no reason other than to exclude the Animorphs humans from it. --Andrusi 05:59, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

I... don't follow. At all.

The "Humans" category, as far as I can see, means "Human characters who exist within the Transformers multiverse." Animorphs characters do not exist within the Transformers multiverse. Excluding them does not redefine the category one bit. --KilMichaelMcC 06:49, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

As far as I can see, the "Humans" category means "Human characters coverd by this wiki," like the Category:Humans page says it does. Because of the nature of this wiki, characters on this wiki, and therefore human characters on this wiki, have previously always been characters who exist within the Transformers multiverse. --Andrusi 13:55, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

All the Category:Humans pages says is "List of human characters." What I am saying is that the Animorphs toys shouldn't be treated as "characters" on this wiki, and listed as part of in-universe categories such as Humans, as they do not exist in-universe. --KilMichaelMcC 14:16, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

I see no reason whatsoever to even HAVE individual Animorphs entries. Just one page covering the line as a brief "brand name experiment", list the toys, move on. --M Sipher 06:43, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

They're Transformers toys, so I think they should get pages. I would be against putting anything from the stories on their pages, though. Only the toys are Transformers. The fiction ain't. --ItsWalky 06:49, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

I think having individual pages for the Animorphs figures is a waste of time and effort. What are you going to say about the characters that isn't from the books? The line received no exclusive characters. It's not as if they have any single bearing on the rest of the Transformers mythos, and only the very slightest influence on the toyline. Just gather them into a single line page with a summary and call it a day.--MCRG 08:01, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

My time, my effort, I'll waste them however I want.  ;)

Anyway: Animorphs toys had bios on their packaging. That's more than we have to go on for, say, Enemy or Scorpia. I'd wager they had more influence on the toyline than either of those, too, considering that they, uh, influenced the toyline at all. Hell, we have a page for Solarbot of all things.

I will, however, draw the line at demanding that the "A" badge be added to Faction symbols. --Andrusi 13:55, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

For fiction, I'm just putting down what's on the packaging (Visser Three is a Yeerk controlling an Andalite body) and what's obvious from looking at the toy (Andalites are freaky alien centaur-things). I figure that's within bounds. The books, yeah, definitely non-TF. I can only barely remember them anyway. --Andrusi 13:55, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Personally, I see no reason to have separate pages for all the characters. After all, there are Star Wars Transformers, and we don't have pages for them. One page is all we need. - Dark T Zeratul 14:06, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

For the record, I think the Star Wars Transformers characters should have pages too. (Particularly since they seem like they'd be golden opportunities for the intentional ignorance we love so much in our "crossover character" pages.) Also, wow, deja vu. I could swear I've typed this same comment before. --Andrusi 19:05, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

I think having separate articles for each Animorph character is stupid. Still, I don't want to say that just because I think it's stupid, that the Wiki "should" not have them. I think nobody should want them because they are totally irrelevant to (what I perceive as) the mission of this Wiki, but if people do want them, then... I guess I can reluctantly accept that. My main concern then becomes an organizational one. For example, the idea of placing Animorphs in the list of TF continuity families seems absurd beyond description to me.

I don't say any of this out of some sort of "how DARE Animorphs have a TF logo on it" hostility towards the franchise. I think it is ridiculous that people got so upset about the word "transformers" appearing on those toys in the first place. It is merely a question of how things are subjectively organized in my own brain. Despite the fact that Animorphs toys were produced by HasTak with a TF logo, I consider them a completely distinct entity with essentially no ties to Transformers other than the historical oddity of the Mutants. To me, Tonka GoBots are much more closely-related to Transformers than are Animorphs, but I wouldn't even consider making GoBots character articles here.

--Steve-o 17:27, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Everything Steve-o just said is basically identical to my position. Especially the part about Animorphs not being treated as a continuity. I would add that to my above arguement about how such pages ought to be categorized. If articles for the individual Animorphs are to be kept, than the italicized notes at the top of them should be changed. Transformers does not have an "Animorphs continuity." Replace "continuity" with "series" or something else. --KilMichaelMcC 23:48, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Everything Steve said too. --M Sipher 00:31, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

I too have felt these feelings Steve-o has felt. -LV 00:37, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Same here, but with one exception. Much like how Spiderman's page only has stuff from Transformers fiction, the Anamorphs should be limited to the toys (which are under the Transformers brand, unlike the not E-Hobby or G2 Gobots) and packaging blurbs. No mention of anything else. No continuity mentioned, as that's all in not-transformers products. (Heck, even the Hartman's archive had Animorph specs) --FortMax 01:46, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

They are. This results in a dozen and a half pages with maybe two sentences of character description and two paragraphs of toy description. I'm pretty much with Steve-O on this one: copy the toy descriptions to the single Animorphs page, then link to Wikipedia for character descriptions and such. - Dark T Zeratul 02:04, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

They are part of TF, insofar that they are a product released under TF. I think individual character pages work simply because each of those characters had multiple toys, and they're a way of covering the toys in a reasonably comprehensive manner. However- also agree with whoever said 'they don't belong in the humans category'. I propose a new category- 'Non-TF Multiverse Characters' (or something) where we can stick the handful of odds-and-ends that simply AREN'T part of Transformers (Even Star Wars no longer qualifies for this) but still somehow end up on this wiki. They're getting the appropriate 'level' of coverage- their role as part of the TF toyline. Since the characters have 3 or 4 toys, individual character pages seem like a good way to handle that in a reasonable amount of space.

This reminds me. The Taco Bell toys are not Hasbro and not Transformers. They don't belong here. -LV 03:24, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure how many non-TF multiverse characters are actually likely to end up here. The Animorphs situation is rather unique (which is why this discussion is happening in the first place). Whether they stay in the Humans category (and Ax and Visser Three stay in the Aliens category) or not, I see little purpose in creating another new category that's just a duplicate of Category:Animorphs. --Andrusi 03:13, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

As for the Category: Humans thing, I want to point out we don't put Pat Lee in that category because while he is human, he isn't a human character in Transformers. Thus- the Animorphs dudes don't belong there. -Derik 03:31, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Pat Lee isn't a human character at all. --Andrusi 14:53, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Needed stuff

We totally need to put some quotes from WWFF spoof of WARenfield's crossover fic as image captions --FortMax 01:49, 26 April 2007 (UTC)