Talk:Dion

Just wondering if the "Who is Dion?" bit isn't a bit too speculative? Really this should be a tiny footnote about the references to his origins. Sure, it's nice to note about the fan speculation -- but should it take up the bulk of the entry? I also the question of putting "Who is Dion" links on other character's pages considering there's no concrete links between these characters and Dion -- other than wishful thinking by fans. ---JHIAXUS.

I think the article is fine as it is. Fandom debate about who, if anyone, Dion got rebuilt into is pretty much the most significant thing about the character. --KilMichaelMcC 22:39, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Yeah. The Dion debate is too significant to the fandom (enough that Dreamwave's comics and the RID cartoon gave it lipservice) to ignore. --ItsWalky 22:41, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Is it just me, or does Dion's color scheme and vehicle mode remind anyone else of Huffer? -- Hunter-113 00:04, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Huffer? Really?

I'll bow to others if they think so, but I really question Huffer belonging in the "who is" section. Magnus and Ironhide have been cannadates argued over since the internet was a yong trasnsistor, but I've never heard anyone suggest Huffer before. Sure, there's the color scheme likeness but that's all I see. Is there REALLY any argument to keep him in there?--ZacWilliam 02:39, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

I buy it even LESS than I buy Ironhide or Magnus being Dion... and I don't think either damn one of them was ever Dion. This is the first time I've ever heard this little piece of badly-argued fanon. --M Sipher 02:42, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Of course not. But this article isn't constructed along sane lines. You could have Ultra Magnus walk up and say "Prime, you were my good friend Orion Pax when I was Dion, and I have to speak with you!" and people would still argue that this statement can't be applied to cartoon continuity. They're attached to Ironhide in their personal continuity.

Maybe the footnote would persuade them... but I doubt it. -Derik 02:49, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

That's three votes for "No Huffer," one more and I say he goes. (Not that it's particularly relevant but I'm a Magnus man myself. I'm sure the writers didn't imntend it, but who cares about that? It makes sense to me and fits the universe and the characters and, to me atleast, it just feels right. But eh, to each his own.)--ZacWilliam 02:57, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

In my opinion, the entire "Who is Dion?" section is ridiculous and should be trimmed down to consist only of the first two sentences, perhaps with the third tagged on (but with Huffer reverted out of the list). Spending even a second paragraph on the idea that Dion must be somebody important is way more than the idea deserves. --Steve-o 03:19, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

What? Even the stuff about how Dion/Ultra Magnus stuff was brought up again in Robots in Disguise and the Dreamwave comics? Whether the idea of Dion being somebody important is stupid or not, we can't really ignore that it's been brought up, officially, over and over. --ItsWalky 04:01, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Oh, actually, I forgot those parts. Basically I want to minimize all speculation to as few sentences as possible. Making arguments for and against particular candidates strikes me as silly. However, I will admit that I am probably biased on this since the whole "Dion must be somebody" thing is a pet peeve of mine. On the other hand, everybody making a case for him being somebody is obviously biased, too. If there's anybody out there who considers themselves neutral on the whole thing, maybe they should be the one to do the revision. --Steve-o 16:25, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

I'm for Dion not being anybody and being dead, and I wrote the original section. --ItsWalky 17:13, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

I agree, only with more profanity. --M Sipher 03:35, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

I restructured the section to downplay Huffer a bit. I suppose the whole thing could stand to be reduced a bit, but as I said above some months back: fandom debate about who, if anyone, Dion got rebuilt into is pretty much the most significant thing about the character. So I have no real problem with the article reflecting that. --KilMichaelMcC 03:40, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

I can live with the downplay of Huffer since he isn;t brought up as much as the other two. I also argee that the speculation of Dion's identity is pretty much the only thing that makes the character worth talking about. -- 69.182.245.28 03:49, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

The reason I put Huffer in the article is because it seems to make to the most sense. From the discussion above I'm not the only one that noticed a similarity. Personally, I think Dion is kind of a loser that should never be mentioned in the same sentence as Ultra Magnus or Ironhide. On the other hand I don't feel the same about the Huffer connection. If the whole "Who is" section must go than so be it, I just thought since it was here it made sense to include Huffer as well. Just give it a some time, maybe a week, before deleting just the Huffer part so more than 3-4 users can comment. -- 69.182.245.28 03:44, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

The problem is that you edited the section to say that Huffer is one of the most popular suggestions for who Dion allegedly was, despite it being something that you just decided right now made the most sense. Bad anonymous editor! --ItsWalky 03:58, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

My Bad -- 69.182.245.28 04:00, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

A note on the link

to JHIAXUS' site. I think JHIAXUS is being disengenuous in asserting that it's certain Dion is dead. I'm saying it's certain that he's not either- it's possible that he had died in the time Alpha Trion was rebuilding Orion Pax (though Ariel lived), but the Arielbots make repeated references to fixing Orion's friends (plural), even though they only mention Ariel by name. Slingshot: "We've got to find someone who can repair him, and his friends!" Air Raid: "He's not the only one: there are others back at the hanger- his girlfriend Ariel!"

Watch for yourself. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mt7W2IA7kKI —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Molybdenumtop (talk • contribs) 17:14, 3 October 2007.

Colors

I removed the "Dion and Huffer share colors" speculation on the basis that Huffer is lavender and Dion is bright blue, which are not the same color. As well, the "Alpha Trion/Elita One commando" that was previously mentioned in that section was identified as a female Transformer in the episode cast list - and was also lavender and orange, not blue. -- Monzo 18:33, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

Whoops!

Sorry about the Wheelie speculation, I did not realise humor wasn't allowed here. I was under the impression that it was, for some reason. Or perhaps it is, but only for the inner circle jerk of wankers.

Really- what is this wiki about? Are you going for standards? If so, get out the watering can, because half the garbage on here is POV/speculation and wouldn't last 5 minutes on Wikipedia. Anyway, here were my additions (in quotes):

"Dion and Wheelie share an almost exact toy design, one being a repaint of the other. In this continuity, Alpha Trion was exhausted after building Optimus, Elita, and all the other robots in his shop that had been "pouring in since this morning." So, he cut a lot of corners... a lot of corners. Ironically, Optimus would not see his old friend until shortly after being brought back from death himself in 2006. (Optimus: "Who the f**k is this Autobot? Wheelie: "Wheelie's my name. Wanna play a game?" Optimus: "No!")"

(Ultra Magnus is a popular suggestion because his cab turns into a white version of the original Optimus Prime body design, and) "their alternate forms on Earth are also similar, suggesting that they were of the same "mold" (as indeed their toy models were.) It" would stand to reason that if Alpha Trion rebuilt both of them at roughly the same time they would have similar designs. More, Optimus specifically calls Magnus "old friend" when he passes the Matrix of Leadership to him. (Though, really, Prime calls everybody that.) To many, Ultra Magnus, being a large powerful character with a latinate name in a leadership role, just seems a fitting completion to a potential triumverate of Optimus, Elita, and Magnus as the first modern Autobots built by Alpha Trion. "Also noteworthy is the upgrade in characterisation in each case, from giggly teenagers to noble leaders. Post-G1 writers may have tended towards this continuity because due to nothing more than coincidence, it makes more sense in every meaningful way."

Other than the last sentence, what is so ojectionable, or out of character with the rest of the paragraph? The whole paragraph is speulation. The whole article's focus is speculative. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Molybdenumtop (talk • contribs).

1) You quote a Youtube video and present it as if it were canon. This is horribly misleading.

2) "Who is Dion?" is a very popular debate amongst Transformers fans, so much that it's been addressed in later canon. The debate consisted of a few very popular answers, which we present. Ironhide and Ultra Magnus (and to a much, much smaller extent, Huffer) are the hotly contested candidates for Dion, one of which has been hinted at, again, as I said, in later canon.

3) Your random, joking suggestion of Wheelie has nothing to do with the context of this article. We are not making up things whole cloth right here to "answer" this debate. This article only reports what fandom thinks and why.

--ItsWalky 21:35, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

Let's address your arguments, even though they don't address mine:

1) the video I quoted was the G1 episode War Dawn. These quotes were from that show. (Do you understand?) If not, watch the clip, noting the quotes I've pointed out, then click on the link to J's site (the only external link on the Dion page,) compare his version of War Dawn to the one you just saw, and tell me who's being "horribly misleading."

2) Obviously- do you think I would disagree? I was under the impression that I was contributing to that, in making further arguments for why it might be Ultra Magnus. Is it not a valid point that Magnus's personality is more similar to Prime's and Elita's then Ironhide's? Does speculation have a place in this article? Some people seem to think so, some people think not, and others think only their point of view should matter.

3) Fine... yes, I got a little carried away, I still thought it was funny.

Sentinel Prime

What does everyone think of Sentinel Prime = Dion? In Animated we now have the "old trio" of Optimus, Elita-1 and Sentinel. Substitute Orion Pax for Optimus and Ariel for Elita and you're left with...Sentinel = Dion. He also has a similar color scheme: blue with yellow/orange highlights. --Xaaron 19:12, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

I think people should stop desperately fishing for imagined patterns to explain irellevent things that do not need explaining. --M Sipher 19:28, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

I thought that was the point of this page. I mean, there's a Huffer reference. --Xaaron 19:56, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Is this a good time to ask if anybody minds removing Huffer from the list? The only person I've ever heard with that theory was the anonymous editor from further up the talk page and I've become more and more disdainful of it every time I've seen the article since then. --Steve-o 20:53, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Animated Sentinel Prime is the same age as Optimus. In other words, he's not old enough to remember the Great War. There's no way he's Dion.

(Besides, the original Sentinel Prime is also orange/yellow.) --ItsWalky 19:31, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

But in no way is he blue, the dominant color of Dion and Animated Sentinel.

And I'm not saying Animated Sentinel was previously known as Dion millions of years ago, but that Dion could be the G1 cartoon version of this Sentinel Prime. G1 Elita-1 and BW Blackarachnia are not related at all, but Animated Blackarachnia is an alternate version of G1 Elita. And while G1 Dion is unrelated to any of the three comic versions of Sentinel Prime, Animated Sentinel could be an alternate version of him. --Xaaron 19:56, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Personal speculation is fine and all, but there's no Animated version of Dion nor any G1 cartoon version of Sentinel Prime, so it means nothing to the wiki.--Apcog 20:17, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Just stop. --M Sipher 20:21, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Geez sorry -- I didn't realize this was a forbidden subject. --Xaaron 00:09, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

But Animated Optimus Prime doesnt' remember the Great War either. Dion and Orpon Pax were the same age. Animated Oppy and Sentinel Prime are the same age. (I'm not saying he's Dion, I'm just pointing out your counterargument is kinda flimsy.)

This... hurts my head so damn much.--Rosicrucian^Talk 00:48, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Not so much a forbidden subject as a floodgate. If we allow one guy's personal theory in here, we have to allow another, then another, and another, etc, until the entire article is one giant fanwank. It's just a door that shouldn't be open. -- SFH 00:15, 27 February 2008 (UTC)