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Transmetals VA

I wasn't sure if BA's voice actress in Transmetals was Venus Terzo or Elizabeth ... wossname, the Predacon Computer Voice. I am inclined to remember it as the latter, but don't feel like looking it up right now, so left it blank. --Monzo 09:15, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

Blahblahblah

Those data bits so they don't have to be retyped IF we used any of it...

Generation: Cyberorganic
Faction: Predacon
Weapon(s): Arm mounted machine guns (×8), Grappling missile launcher
Alternate Form(s): Black Widow Spider
Function: Double Agent
Strength: 4.0
Intelligence: 7.0
Speed: 6.0
Endurance: 6.0
Rank: 5.0
Courage: 8.0
Firepower: 7.0
Skill: 8.0

Generation: Transmetal II
Faction: Maximal
Weapon(s): Telekinesis, Power Kicks, Wrist Blades, Rocket Launcher
Alternate Form(s): Transmetal Spider
Function: Saboteur
Strength: 5.5
Intelligence: 9.3
Speed: 7.2
Endurance: 6.8
Rank: 5.0
Courage: 7.6
Firepower: 6.1
Skill: 8.5

[1] -Derik 01:23, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Organization

I question the placement of the BW Manga between the US BW and BM material. We have been aligning most entries according to continuity, then series. (See Hot Shot (UT), for example. Cartoon:Armada, Energon, Cybertron; then Comic:Armada, Energon.) That way, the summaries of stories flow logically and chronologically. I would probably prefer to move the BW Manga section after Universe. --ItsWalky 00:49, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

Agreed and done. Why is Legends seperate? Is it for the Armadqa tale? is she even IN The Armada tale? Or are was counting Furman's contribution as a seperate continuity? In EITHER case, the banner Legends is an inaccurate container-continuity for the tales it contains, becase a character might appear in SEVERAL Legends tales, in multiple continuities. -Derik 01:49, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

In the case of Legends, I'd say put the story/stories they appear in's title in italics as a header above the descriptive paragraph. - User: M Sipher

Japanese Voice actress

So I'm looking at the decomposing corpse of TFPulp. http://web.archive.org/web/20041019195546/www.tfpulp.com/archive/seiyuu/seiyuu.html She's all the way down at the bottom. Says Black Widow's voice actress was "Ryoka Yuzuki aka Kanori Kadomatsu aka Ayumi Nagashii". Ryoka Yuzuki would appear to be her real name. Is the one listed, Iwata, another alias? --DrSpengler 20:45, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

Fixed! Evan1975 21:26, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Blackarachnia's Telekinesis and it's connection to Tarantulas

I'm seriously getting tired of being accused of vandalism whenever I post that BA's TM2 telekinesis is likely a product of her mind link with Tarantulas upgraded. I've been told repeatedly that it's an 'unsubstantiated rumor', but I've seen similar theories about multiple entries in this site that have far less evidence to back them up than this has.

While it's not stated directly, the evidence in-show obviously sets up the mind link as the source of the telekinesis: first, the link was stated as psychic in nature, not electronic or otherwise artificial, which is why Megatron didn't detect any transmissions being made when the link was being used. It was also very powerful, and worked both ways; not only was Tarantulas able to speak through BA with it and cause her mental pain, but she also acquired a lot of information from his memories, information that she retained after the link was severed. Plus, when BA threatened to kill herself via energon radiation if the link wasn't terminated, her anguish was visibly shared through the link by Tarantulas, and even he noted that, if BA did terminate herself, the link would've ensured his death, as well. There's also the debatable scene where Tarantulas forces himself inside BA's head after he's burned by Inferno, and had to download himself into his new TM body from BA's noggin, which could meaning that the link was established by his literally inhabiting her mind. Oh, and besides mutant spark-aided healing, I don't recall the show ever stating that the TM2 process granted a Transformer brand new abilities that they didn't have before, just upgrades to what they already had, meaning that the potential for BA's telekinesis had to already be there to begin with, and since BA was never even hinted at having the required mental faculties for psychokinesis, even before the mind-link, where else did she get it from?

Yes, it's a theory, but it's a theory blatantly supported by the cartoon. Her eyes even glow the same color as when Tarantulas gained control of her during the link when she levitated the girder to dispatch Rampage, for crying out loud. If that doesn't solidify the "spider mindmeld alien upgrade" theory, then I dunno what does.66.233.183.59 22:57, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

In no way is either telepathy or telekinesis a "powered up" version of the other. They are totally unrelated abilities aside from both being brain things. Precognition, clairvoyance, astral projection, etc., are also "psychic" brain things, but that doesn't mean they are related. Honestly, until Derik posted to my talk page about it saying, "they are both psychic abilities", I seriously had no idea why you would think they were connected. There are *tons* of types of psychic ability. All of the evidence you cite, other than the eye glow thing which might have something to it, is merely consistent with your theory; it doesn't support you. All the same evidence is also consistent with her telekinesis having nothing to do with Tarantulas.
Regarding eye-glow: Several characters over the course of the series had their eyes glow for various reasons. I don't recall what colors were used for these various effects. I wouldn't be surprised if unrelated instances of glowing eyes happened to use the same color from time to time, but admittedly I don't know that offhand.
--Steve-o 23:14, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
What he said. And, as far as eye-glow is concerned, I'm WAY more inclined to chalk it up to "Mainframe knew how to do that effect" than them making some kind of conscious reference to an unrelated event practically a full season back. --M Sipher 23:25, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
Which other Transformers were confirmed to have actual psychic abilities, especially in Beast Wars? Besides, the link not only allowed BA and Tarantulas to communicate telepathically, but it also allowed Tarantulas to TAKE OVER HER BODY and INFLICT PAIN ON HER PSYCHICALLY, neither of which are generally accepted as being strictly telepathic abilities. Plus, read any kind of fiction that includes psychic abilities, and you'll almost always see a telepath manifest telekinetic abilities of some form. It also makes far more sense than say...Primacron's Oracle assistant being THE Oracle of Beast Machines (which also has no evidence to support it, yet it's allowed in Primacron Oracle's article). Essentailly, all you're saying is Mainframe is too stupid to make self references of past subplots, which is interesting considering how they touched up on Tigatron and Airazor's abduction, the fate of Sentinel, BA's shell program, Tarantulas' hatred for the Vok...need I go on? Honestly, do you guys even watch the media whose wikis you monitor?
Dude, I've seen Beast Wars more times than I can count. I have it memorized. No where was it remotely implied that Blackarachnia got telekinesis powers from having a mind-link with somebody else. Those aren't even the same power! Telekinetics and telepaths are two completely different things! And please stop insulting people. --ItsWalky 00:33, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
Didn't one of the BotCon comics retcon the Oracle as being the assistant? I'm not sure of that. And typically, when we have fannon in an article, it is 1. in the trivia section, 2, is in it's own paragraph seperate from the cannon, and 3. is clearly stated as such. And even then, it's only included if it was notable in the fandom (aka, who was Dion built into, is Brawn dead or alive, who became Cyclonus, Scourge, and the Sweeps, etc. This is the only long discussion on this topic I've seen, ans you seem to be the only one who insists the two abilities are linked. Yes, you can say the fiction doesn't contridict it, but you can claim the same thing about Alpha Trion being a pimp before the rebellion against the Quintessons. --FortMax 00:41, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
BotCon comics never mentioned the G1 Oracle, I'm pretty sure. (Its name is known only from the script, so I wouldn't expect that sort of thing to show up.) Regardless, I've removed that bit from that page's trivia section. --ItsWalky 00:43, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
Botcon comics introduce the new wrinkle that 'the oracle' from BM, wasn't actually the one from the legends Primal knew, it was something the quints created to exploit that legend. The first posts about the G1 Oracle being called The Oracle in the script (model sheet?) came out not long prior- I'm inclined to think that, in creating an unrelated 'real oracle,' they were reffign the CotP one- but even if that wasn't their intention, the existance of a G1 Oracle with ties to TF origins certainly merits mention since there actually IS soms sort of actual Oracle in TF legend that might be/probably is that one. -Derik 04:11, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
What other explination is there? That it spontaneously developed on their own when she became TM2? As I said before, there's nothing stated in the show that says that the process gives the Transformer new powers besides the spark-healing. In fact, beyond Blackarachnia, NONE of the TM2s in the show gained new abilities from the driver. Telekinesis is different from telepathy, fine, but as I explained, the mind link between BA and Tarantulas was NOT just merely telepathy; if it was, he shouldn't have been able to control her body, nor inflict pain on her. In fact, the moment he was restored to his original body, BA tried to shoot him, and what does he do? Force her mentally to turn her gun to her own head. That's not telepathy, now is it? It's just assumed to me 'mere' telepathy, because that's for the most part what Tarantulas used it for: seeing and knowing whatever BA saw and knew.66.233.183.59 00:54, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
"What other explination is there? That it spontaneously developed on their own when she became TM2?" Uh, yeah. I think that's obvious. That was sort of the deal. --ItsWalky 01:09, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

66.233.183.59, you seem to be taking this all really personally. We are not saying that "Mainframe is too stupid" to have referenced a past episode. We are saying that in this particular case we don't think they were doing so.

Controlling somebody's body and causing them to feel pain are MOST DEFINITELY applications of telepathy as portrayed in many works of fiction. Both come about through manipulating the victom's mind, not by applying force to the limbs. The only story I can think of offhand where telekinesis is considered to be something "beyond" but connected to telepathy is Babylon 5, and even in that series, telepaths with no teke inflicted pain and mind-control on others.

You are right, there is no "other" explanation for where her powers came from. There is also no explanation for where the Transmetal Driver came from in the first place, how it brought her back from the dead, or why it made Cheetor go Jeckyll/Hyde. This doesn't mean that just because some idea some people discussed *can* fit the canon that it is *supported* by the canon.

If you see instances of fanon where it doesn't belong on this Wiki, please edit it, or at the very least comment about it on the relevant talk page. As with any Wiki, there is going to be some inaccurate stuff here and there. A lot of us monitor the "recent changes" page, especially for edits by anonymous users, which is why so many people have been reverting your edits to this article. There is still plenty of opportunity, though, for mistakes to find their way in. Just because you see something on a page doesn't mean that we all unanimously agree with it. It could even be that content which directly contradicts our policies i around someplace and nobody has noticed it yet. We'd all appreciate your help in seeking out that sort of thing.

--Steve-o 01:14, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

After none of the other TM2s in the show gained any such spontaneous abilities?
...but they did! I'm starting to wonder who really hasn't watched the show, here. Dinobot had magical healing factor. Cheetor had Spidey-sense. And they all used the same crazy glow-effect tentacles. TM2s had special mutant powers. It was their deal, as I said. --ItsWalky 01:51, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
Unlikely. I'm sorry, but "a wizard did it" just isn't flying with me, especially considering how much of a freak accident it would have to be in order for it to work. Did Cheetor gain the ability to teleport, for instance, or Dinobot the power to slow time? No, they did not; aside from the spark-healing (which seems to be pretty universal for all Transmetal 2's), any powers they gained were mere upgrades to whatever they had before; Cheetor could run faster and 'air dash' like his original Transmetal form, while DInobot had a laser-firing eyepiece and razor-sharp melee weapons. If you consider them TM2's, only Tigerhawk gained any 'new' powers, due to direct Vok influence and not the modified driver; Megatron gained the ability to fly and shoot things from his gun/head hand. Again, nothing new there. So why is it that only Blackarachnia gained a power that's not only completely new, but according to you not even remotely related to her in the least? The psychic link theory is more feasible to me, because of the consistency it has with all of the other showings of what a TM2 gains in the show: greatly heightened versions of their existing powers. You can argue that the process was unfinished, but then again, so was Cheetor's, and he didn't gain any nifty new power; you can say that she was technically dead when the process finished, but Dinobot was a cloned blank protoform with half a spark that's not even his own, Cheetor woas on death's doorstep himself, and Megatron was thrown into a lava bath and left for dead. Again, none of them gained any new powers. The only thing that logically fits here is her psychic link with Tarantulas, and considering how much he screwed with her mind, how can you say there was no trace of the link left in her head after it was severed?66.233.183.59 01:40, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
I know I haven't seen BW in awhile, but I'm pretty sure BA never had any magical healing factor (not as sure about Cheetor, though). Plus, it was never even implied that BA had telepathy. All that was from the mind link, which was entirely Tarantulas. --FortMax 02:04, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
First, Walky, both Cheetor and Dinobot had glow-effect tentacle healing powers; Dinobot was seen using it more actively and often than Cheetor, but Cheetor did use them to heal himself fully (if unknowingly) after he was almost slagged by his dip in the Transmetal driver. And the 'spidey-sense' you're talking about? If you're thinking of him blasting Waspinator behind his back without even looking, that was just a 'cool trick' (Optimus did warn him about the Pred a few seconds before he blasted him), and even if it wasn't, it's been shown in the first and possibly second season that Cheetor's dreams sometimes foretell future events, so his 'spidey-sense' could just be an upgraded version of that power.

Second, BA never showed any healing powers before or after her transformation to TM2, but then again, she's rarely damaged to the point where she'd need them, so she didn't really have a chance to use them. As for the link being all Tarantulas, it's true he initiated it, but again, it's been established that the link went both ways; BA mentioned in Other Visits that she could get inside Tarantulas' head while the link was established, and gleaned a lot of information about the Tripredacus agent as a result, and both of them realized just how devastating BA's death would be to Tarantulas through the link in Tangled Web. Not only did Tarantulas feel BA's pain from her energon exposure through the link, but he also mentioned that if BA succeeded in committing suicide, it would feedback through the link and wipe him out, as well, hence BA's pleas to "save them both" by terminating the link. So, while Tarantulas created the link in the first place, it wasn't entirely one-sided, and no amount of mental torture would not leave any trace in the tortured party's mind.66.233.183.59 02:28, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

All of this is irrelevant to the fact that you're trying to push your own theories that aren't in the actual canon. If you see other cases of "fanon" in this wikia, then fix them. That fanon exists does not mean we should add more fanon. Interrobang 23:40, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
Excuse me? Who says they're my theories? As I said before, there was a discussion about this very same thing on Ben Yee's Transformers forum a while back (since deleted, unfortunately), and most people on there agreed with the theory. In fact, the Tarantulas/BA discussions on there hint constantly at their mind link and its relationship to her TM2 telekinesis, so this is not just my own personal pet belief. Fanon it may be, but I'm completely shocked and disgusted that all of you are acting like I'm the only one who's "dumb enough" to believe it, and it's "obvious" to anyone else that it's not true. That, personally, smacks of just as much personal bias as you seem to believe my posting this theory to have.66.233.183.59 07:21, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
I think you're taking this WAY too personally. When it comes to Fannon the simple answer is it really doesn't belong here. If it's something widely and universally adopted it may get a mention but otherwise fan theories just have no place here. This fan theory is definately not widely adopted nor is it an unavoidably logical assumption, as evidenced by the fact that no one else here had ever heard of it or believes there's any real evidence to support it asside from the wildly ephemeral and circumstantial. Keep it in your personal fannon sure, but recognize it for what it is and let it go already.
I'm taking it persnally, because of how it was treated on here: like it was some wild babbling of one fan trying to push his personal beliefs on a wiki, and that there's no possible way it could've happened. Why do you think all my edits of it say that it was possible that it could've happened, instaed of that it did? Not saying that they aren't right, and it is just wild speculation (in fact, I emailed Mainframe to ask them about it directly just to put this debate to rest), but the main point of contention I have here, is that the mods seem to be so biased in their belief that there's no way it could possibly even hint to be true, even after the evidence is laid out, that they won't hear it. I even asked them for their explanation for how BA's telekinesis spontaneously developed, if not from her mind link with Tarantulas, and they essentially said "Uhhhh, we can't, but it definitely did". They mentioned Dinobot's healing factor and Cheetor's "spider-sense" as "new powers" like BA's telekinesis; Cheetor showed those same healing powers during Feral Scream, and the techspecs for the TM2 line itself (trust me, I used to own the entire line) establishes it as being universal among TM2s, while Cheetor's been established to have somewhat-prophetic dreams earlier in the show (and, since Optimus did warn him about Waspinator moments before Cheetor shot him, it's likely it was more or less a "cool trick" to show off how the process changed him). The fact that all of the evidence is stacked against them, and they can't even come up with an adequate defense for their own pet theories, yet they act and pretty much demand that it's the only logical explanation is what's driving this personally to me, not my own theories being rejected. I understand that this is a wiki, and a wiki's for truth, which is why I haven't reposted the theory ever since I started posting on this discussion, but the mod's own theories have even less evidence to back it up than mine does, so what the hell?66.233.183.59 19:16, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
Your evidence is "she was once controlled telepathically, so that's the obvious reason why she's later a telekenetic, despite all of the other TM2s gaining similar powers at the same time she gets telekenesis." Your evidence is crap. --ItsWalky 20:36, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
And since when did the other TM2's get telekinetic abilities? Or even anything similar to them? How in the hell can you relate Dinobot's spark healing to her Telekinesis? That is crap. And again, you haven't given me any explanation as to how Cheetor gained 'spider-sense', especially since the only hint that he used them was to knock Waspinator out from behind his back after Optimus warned him about it. So, let me get this straight: since the mind link was telepathic and not telekinetic, they can't possibly be related, even though they're both ESP-based powers and closely related in nearly all fiction that has them. Again, watch the show again, and you'll see that, besides the universal spark healing, none of the TM2s besides BA gained any extra powers, just upgrades to what they had before. BA's telekinesis came right out of the blue, with no ties to her abilities before other than her link with Tarantulas, and you're saying they can't be related, since they're totally different things. I still haven't heard one explanation from any of you as to how she gained those powers, if that's the case. All I've heard from you is "Uhhh, we have no explanation, but you're full of shit, because it didn't happen that way". You can't even back up your own argument, and yet you're completely convinced that mine is total crap. You even admit that my evidence coincides with my theory, which is a lot more than your lack of evidence is doing for yours. So again, I have to wonder if you guys actually watch and pay attention to the media that's covered in this wiki site, or if you're just winging it, because you certainly don't sound like you have a leg to stand on.66.233.183.59 22:03, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
Y'know, that's not the only time Cheetor's "spidey-sense" kicks in. In Go With The Flow, while Megatron is busy aiming his cannon at the Maximal base, Cheetor's spark compartment pops open on it's own and his spark begins to glow, leading him to look down at it and go "Uh-oh." Just felt like pointing that out. - Chris McFeely 21:50, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
And Cheetor was shown dreaming of Starscream's return and his rescue by Rattrap at the beginning of The Web, both of which came true. Your point? It's been established that Cheetor had some kind of precognitive abilities in his dreams a long time prior to Feral Scream, so again, his "spider sense" isn't a new, spontaneous power, but more than likely an upgrade of that established one.66.233.183.59 22:03, 3 May 2007 (UTC)


Ok, Listen closely to these points:
  • 1) Telepathy and and Telekenesis are two entirely different things.
  • 2) Nothing in the show really hints at ANY sort of connection between her time with Tarrantulas and telekinetic powers.
  • 3) Yes, they COULD be connected, but thats not the same things as having any reason to believe they are. It could just as easilly be something caused by her Transmetal II transformation. There's no real evidence in the show that ANYTHING caused it. It could be a power she ALWAYS had but just never used before for all we know. Heck, it could be a *Magnetic* power like Windcharger has, since there's good evidence of that existing in TFs before and since. And if it WAS magnetic rather than psychic that would destroy your whole argument, yes? No reason to think it's not.
  • 4) So since it's all baseless speculation none of it belongs.


  • 1) Telepathy and Telekinesis are two entirely different things, eh? They're both ESP powers, and by and large most fiction that gives their characters some kind of psychic powers often have one power as its main one and others as sub-powers; for instance, Jean Grey has primarily Telekinetic powers, but she's also known to have some telepathic powers as well, long before the concept of "secondary mutations" was developed; Professor X had both Telepathy and Astral Projection, different powers but still ESP. Sage was a Cyberpath, but also could "jump-start" mutant genes with her mind, mutually exclusive aside from being ESP-based powers. Phoebe Halliwell originally had precognition, but soon developed empathy, as well, and those are totally unrelated-yet-still-psychic powers. See what I mean? You can have one transition into another, or develop simultaneously, so just because telepathy and telekinesis are 'totally different', they're still psychic powers and it's not that much of a stretch for one to develop into the other (especially since they're both mental manipulation, just one is done with other people's minds while the other is done with something more physical).
  • 2) That may be true, but then again, her use of telekinesis in Master Blaster was just so sudden and so unexplained that there's nothing really definitive to connect it to. Sill, it's a psychic power, and she was stuck in a psychic connection with Tarantulas for the first four episodes of season 2, which was not only forced on her by Tarantulas downloading himself into her mind, which needed a specialized machine to get him out and into his real body, but also was forced to be broken by a suicide attempt that fed back on the link and would've killed them both had it not been broken, it makes the most sense.
  • 3.) You're right; it could've been magnetic and not true telekinesis. But again, nothing about BA before then showed that she had some kind of magnetic powers; she had her webs and grappling hook, but she's shown to use those after her upgrade to TM2, anyway, so you can rule those out as influences on her new power. And again, aside from the spark-healing (which both Dinobot and Cheetor where shown to have, and which the story behind the TM2 line establishes is universal for TM2s), all of the abilities that they show have been upgrades of abilities that they already had; Cheetor's prophetic dreams from Season 1 could've easily been upgraded to his 'spider-sense' in Season 3 (especially since they're a lot closer to functionality), and the original Dinobot could fire lasers from his eyes, which the clone could do, as well. Cheetor could 'run' in the air at Mach 2; he gained the ability to fly in his last body, and he's always been naturally fast. No new, spontaneous powers were developed between either of them, unlike BA. So, again, a wizard did it isn't flying with me.
  • 4) There's a lot more basis in the theory than saying "Uhhh, it just happened", so while it is still fanon, it's not mere speculation.66.233.183.59 22:55, 3 May 2007 (UTC)


Following up:

1) ESP means "Extra Sensory Perception". Telekenesis is in no way ESP. Both are psychic powers, that's all. The fact that X-men comics made a connection between the two sometimes, for some characters doesn't make them the same thing or negate the thousands of sci fi stories where they're in no way at all connected.
4) No, there's not. Your looking at things the wrong way.

What makes more sense to say in an encyclopedia entry:

  • "There's a huge new storm on Saturn, causes unknown."
or
  • "There's a huge new storm on Saturn that's possibly caused by aliens, as many respectable people have reported seeing extra-terestrials with advanced abillities in the past, and they would live in space where Saturn is, after all."
IE. - Just because you can construct a feasible explanation for something with some circumstantial support/links does NOT mean it's more than just speculation or really likely. Your idea COULD work, but in the oppinion of most folks here (as you can see) there's just not enough in the show supporting it that it deserves inclusion over the more concise "causes unknown explanation." --ZacWilliam 23:13, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

You still aren't getting it. It's not contained in official sources. I don't care if you and some other guys on a message board spent eternity talking about why this happened, any speculation (that's what it is) you guys pull out of nowhere is not official. It's that simple. Your argument has as much official basis as "Blackarachnia, in one throwaway scene, can move a random piece of debris because she's a girl, like Jean Grey!" Interrobang 00:35, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

So why are there so many OTHER items not contained in 'official' sources being listed on the wiki, eh? The TM2 Driver wiki states that Megs probably found it in one of the Vok machines, but that's nowhere near official. But, oh, wait, the Driver is of "alien origin" like the Vok, and the comics listed it as a Vok data storage unit, so it MUST'VE come from the Metalhunter or that floating island that BA absconded with, right? Just because it was a Vok object, doesn't mean it came from a Vok site; it may have fell from the giant moon beam weapon that Primal destroyed, and Megs NEVER visited there.

The fact remains, that you guys are so biased against the possibility that her telekinesis might've had a link with her mindmeld with Tarantulas, that you'll blatantly ignore the evidence for it and even treat two psychic powers that have been linked together for years in fiction as being completely mutually exclusive from one another just to justify your view, which is just as 'unofficial' as my theory is. The shows don't say that it developed on its own from the Driver, either, does it? It just appears without explanation and disappears just as sudden. All I'm saying is that it's a possibility, whereas you guys are saying that it's stone cold fact that it's not related to anything.

Also, how do you consider my posting the theory as 'vandalism'? because I keep on reposting it after it's deleted? If I was really vandalizing, I'd replace all the pics on here of photoshopped nude images of Venus Terzo, or delete it and replace it with a wiki on hair cream. That is vandalism; posting a fanon theory on here is nothing, especially since there's a lot of fanon theories allowed on here. It's really becoming apparent that you allow them because you agree with them; you don't agree with this theory, so it's obviously vandalism. That's hypocritical, and furthermore, that's downright selfish and arrogant. But hey, you're the moderators, so you have the ultimate power to enforce your beliefs, right? 66.233.183.59 01:58, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

You don't get to make up new definitions for "vandalism" just so you can claim it's not what you're doing. Sorry. --Andrusi 02:41, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
You're right, he would have to edit the article defining what vandalism is first. -Derik 04:19, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
You just proven my point. Arrogant, self-important hypocrites, the lot of you. Ban my IP if you want, I don't care anymore. This wiki is utter shit; a REAL wiki wouldn't allow so much blatant personal comments AS PART OF THE ARTICLES. If you were really concerned about being professional and sticking to the facts, you'd enforce against such comments in the actual wiki, like the "naughty, naughty girl" comment regarding BA's spiked collar, or indeed, ALL of the captions in the pics. I also post end edit regularly on the ORIGINAL Wikipedia, and I know their vandalism policy; what I was posting on BA's article would NOT be considered vandalism on there, even if it got deleted and I reposted it. Only blatant attempts to destroy the wiki or provide blatantly false information (which you can't prove and HAVE not proved my theory to be, yet) are considered vandalism. At most, I would be asked to integrate it into the main article so the Trivia section would be minimalized. It's simply the fact that it's a theory you don't like that you call it vandalism.

I have a real problem with you complaining about 'blatant personal comments' in the article while trying to insert one of your own.

>how do you consider my posting the theory as 'vandalism'?
>because I keep on reposting it after it's deleted?

Yes. exactly. It was deleted, repeatedly, for a reason. Do you want to know why?

Because you are stating, definitively, that she got telekinesis as a result of her rape is japan's way of saying hello Kiss-Player treatment at the hands of Tarantulas. It's not a bad theory. (i don't happen to think it's a very good one, but it's certainly not awful or implausible.) But it's a theory, and you're saying that this is what happened.

Do you understand why people feel this is not acceptable?

No, wait, actually, you know what? I don't care if you understand why it's unacceptable. Understand that it is unacceptable, I'll settle for that.

I'm being tetchy for two reasons.

  • I hate arguing with an IP address. Register for a goddamn account so that next time you act like a jackhole the mods can give you a 1-week ban.
  • Despite all of this angst, the fucking trivia entry is wrong anyway. Her TK isn't mentioned in her tech-spec. You've spent 5 days editing and bitching about that trivia note- but no one caught that. People kept telling you you were wrong, and instead of doing the sensible thing like going back to the source material- rewatching episodes and reading the tech-spec to see if there's anything in the phrasing that might lay the issue to rest- you just kept shoving your opinion in sideways.

You don't care about using consensus debate to make the trivia entry better, you just want to be right, and that's just unforgivably arrogant, especially from someone who's hiding behind 'this is what the show actually says.' You. Never. Checked.

So, fuck you, and I'm rewriting the trivia entry to better reflect the facts. Edit it on me after I do so (for any reason other than spelling or grammar) and I'll cut your balls off and sell them on e-bay. -Derik 05:01, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Hey, mister IP address? Get the fuck over yourself. Your theory is not even important enough for us to be "biased" against. IT IS NOT OFFICIAL. That's all there fucking is to it. The simplest solution to fanon is to remove it, not add more. I've told you this already.
Hiding behind "YOO HAV NO PROVE THAT I WRONG" is simply a retard's way to make it seem that he's right. The onus is on you to prove that you're right, not for us to disprove whatever theory you pull out of your ass. I think Unicron is Jean Grey's astral self after merging with the Phoenix and dying. You have no proof I'm wrong. On top of that, this argument completely and utterly misses the point. Interrobang 17:48, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
I NOMINATE THIS ENTIRE DISCUSSION FOR FEATURED ARTICLE OF THE CENTURY. -hx 23:06, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Wow. Well, as much fun as that discussion was to read, I actually have another explanation to suggest...very, very timidly. When I first watched the shows, I saw Cheetor and Blackarachnia as having technokinetic-style powers. Something I didn't see mentioned above was, prior to the "cool trick", Cheetor's spark crystal generated a tendrill to remotely unholster his gun from his back. My fanon expands on that and has Cheetor also being able to retrieve his gun from a distance, Jedi-style. It's only a short jump from there to Blackarachnia sending I-beams flying across a room. Anyway, my two cents.

--Xaaron 03:08, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

I could be wrong but I remember seeing energy come out of her spark grab the girder and then throw it. Personally, that is not telekineses on top of that a mind link isn't really telepathy either.

Ok, I see that this debate is, for the most part, over, but just to avoid it coming up again: I'm ending this. I could go into the whole definition of each ability, with telepathy being defined as the psionic ability to hear, send, or manipulate thoughts, with some advanced telepaths being able to cast illusions, control other’s actions/possess them, etc. whereas telekinesis the psionic ability to manipulate and move matter. Other than being involved with the brain, these powers are just as much related as telepathy is to pyrokinesis (the psionic ability to manipulate fire) or hydrokinesis (the psionic ability to manipulate water. Just because a superhuman or supernatural ability involves active mental concentration doesn't mean it is related to any other ability that requires the same. Not to mention, you're comparing incredibly different works of fiction, that do not have the same basis in "fact". Comparing a mutant (and cosmic being) and a supernatural witch to a robot? Really? But, ok, if you really want to debate based on the merit of comparing vastly different fictional universes, we can. The X-Men's Jean Grey has always been said to have two distinct mutant powers: telekinesis and telepathy. They were not intertwined, other than the fact that she possessed both of them. They manifested at different times, are different when they are amplified by the Phoenix Force, and when she swapped powers with Psylocke and had only telepathy, she went through a secondary mutation that manifested her telekinesis, again. Her telepathy power did not change once she went through the secondary mutation. And secondary mutations have been shown to be quite different: Emma Frost being a telepath and later manifesting a diamond form. Not to mention all of the mutants that are either telepaths OR telekinetics (Telepaths: Charles Xavier, Emma Frost, Betsy Braddock (her original power), the Stepford Cuckoos (Sophie, Esme, Celeste, Mindee, and Phoebe Cuckoo), Quentin Quire, Amohl Farouk) (Telekinetics: Julian Keller, Betsy Braddock (her power after a power swap with Jean Grey), David Haller, Vance Astrovik, Saint Anna), whereas the number of mutants within the X-Men universe that have both telepathy and telekinesis are Jean Grey, Nathan Summers, Rachel Summers, Madelyne Pryor, and Nate Grey. However, this large number of mutants is distinctly notable for the strong genetic connections they have to Jean Grey. In that list are her genetic clone, her daughter, the son of her clone, and a being made from half of her DNA. As to the thing about Phoebe Halliwell and her "unconnected" powers of premonition and empathy other than they being psionic. Wrong, again. In the episode of the second season, P3 H2O Phoebe had a premonition of her mother, Patty being drowned by a water demon and felt her mother's fear, as if it were her own. This was four years before she manifested as a full-blown Empath and a year before the concept of one was even introduced to the show. And to add insult to injury, the show Heroes also has the distinction between telepaths (Matt Parkman, Maury Parkman, Charles Deveaux) and telekinetics (Brian Davis), with no blurring of the lines. And, little fyi, by American court rule, as you're the one attempting to prove something (ala the prosecution), you have to be the one to prove your side, beyond a reasonable doubt, not us. That kind of line does not have to be drawn, but you threw it out, so there it is. And all of this over a twenty second clip. Cheetor616 22:22, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

Binaltech?

I'm not entirely clear on the situation, but if the Binaltech stuff was "unused", then it's not canon, and belongs (heavily summarized from its current length) under "Trivia", not "Fiction". JW 17:53, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Self upgrade

This article claims that Blackarachnia is the only character in the series to intentionally upgrade herself this is not true because Megatron sneaked into the Ark to merge his spark with that of Megatron G1 to upgrade himself.

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