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Re: the Protectorbots- they were part of Perceptor's resistance cell on Cybertron a few hundred yeards ago, they're glimpsed in the flashback issue of the Underbase saga, the ones who sent Grandslam and Raindance to Earth. -Derik 10:56, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure we see Defensor there, but that's long before the Autobots had developed combiner technology. I'd either chalk it up as an error, or say that Defensor was modeled on that guy. Chip 12:34, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
I checked, and Sunstreaker's there too. So... yeah. Chip 12:34, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
Combiners were developed centuries ago on Cybertron so it's quite possible that it was Defensor.
(The whole Second Generation thing is kinda a mess.)
I'm not saying the note about this beign the Protectobots first appearance shoudl be excised- but the one there is... unnecessarily long. 'First appearance, may have just been created, though there's some issues, see Protectobot' -Derik 16:39, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

From Funeral for a Friend:

  • It is presumed that the Protectobots were granted life via the Creation Matrix, since the Autobots currently have no means of getting reinforcements from Cybertron. Yet First Aid's words to Ratchet at the bottom of page 3 (and top of page 4) seem to be words of experience....

That was my source. -Derik 18:43, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

For the benefit of everyone else, the dialogue mentioned is:

Ratchet: I won't be there, Perceptor. Count me out.
First Aid: Why?
Ratchet: I can't face ANOTHER of my failures, First Aid. You go on without me.
First Aid: Ratchet, like you, I, too, am a doctor. We do the best we can and often it STILL isn't ENOUGH. We're at war with the Decepticons. Casualties are inevitable. Optimus Prime knew the risks better than anyone.
Ratchet: He wasn't just another gun-toting conscript to me, First Aid. He was my friend. I'm staying.
First Aid: I understand your grief, Ratchet, but remember -- we doctors must concern ourselves with those we can still help -- the living. Where there's life, there's hope. There's nothing we can do for the dead.

I don't think any of that implies First Aid's been around for very long. He's just saying various doctor-related platitudes. In my opinion, it sounds like he hasn't been around long enough to be weary of his failures, his lack of cynicism a betrayal of his newness. Either way, this exchange does not give us ammunition in any definitive direction as it pertains to this subject. --ItsWalky 18:50, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Okie-day, i didn't have the issue handy, glad someoen checked. -Derik 18:57, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

First Aid is being especially kind since he's a doctor and Ratchet is only a medic. That Ratchet is an ungrateful bitch. -LV 19:49, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

I just read this, I must say, it is one of the most stupid comics I have ever read. Mechabreaker Prime 22:58, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

The UK printing of the second half is the first TF comic I ever read and it's one of the reasons I'm here today. Now admittedly at the age of 7 I was probably more accepting of stuff, and childhood nostalgia of reading the comics will always mean that flaws in them will be excused more readily than the cartoon which wasn't a part of my childhood, but I enjoyed the story then. Prime felt he had compromised his key principles to win the battle and that a victory over Megatron in the real world (and what else would the destruction of Megatron be?) would be hollow, regardless of whether or not Multi-World was real, because of what he had to sacrifice in the process. He didn't just kill himself "over a computer game", he did so because the only other way would have been a false victory over Megatron. He felt he had lost and followed the logical conclusion.
Okay this may not stand up so well now but at the time it served its purpose and I've read much, much, much worse (e.g. the Autobots and Decepticons trying to fight a propaganda war in a supermarket tabloid! Or learning the Spider-Man of the last twenty years was a clone!). This one is unfairly bashed. Timrollpickering 11:37, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
I'm sure that when the Decepticons, unchecked, scourge the Earth with fire, leaving nothing but coal and bone, the humans will understand that Prime felt it very important to not live with a hollow victory inside a virtual world. --ItsWalky 14:39, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
Yes but this is an endemic dilemma in such fiction as the hero, particularly one written as straightforwardly upright and noble as Optimus Prime is, can't kill in cold blood or, in this case, benefit from abuse of their principles, regardless of the threat level if the villain is left alive. The status of the virtual world is irrelevant as it's "if I did this what would this make me?" that's the key moral dilemma not "how did it happen?" And the outcome is almost always one of two situations - either the villain is allowed to live with all the threat they pose in the future and perhaps the hero faces odium for their inaction (see for example this issue of Action Force where Flint couldn't execute Destro) or the hero does kill and subsequently goes through major soul searching (e.g. what happened when Superman killed the Pocket Universe Kryptonians supervillains). "The ends justify the means" is rarely allowed as a solution.
Of course what weakens the way this is done is that such discussion of values is limited to a brief conversation between Prime and Hot Spot and then later Prime's declaration without that much argument about it. What might have been a better way to handle the deaths of Prime and Megatron would have been to reverse the scenario - Prime temporarily swallowing his principles and letting Megatron be destroyed, but in the next issue Prime succumbs to a nervous breakdown and the consequences of this result in his death. Timrollpickering 18:19, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
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