Talk:Sari Sumdac

Meta-category
'Tentative' meta-category? (So that one can periodically go through it and clear things out?) -Derik 22:56, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Sandals and such
I'm debating undoing the "not a Kiss Player" addition, but can't quite justify it based on the general humor tone of the rest of the wiki, so I'll leave it to someone else. I'm also tempted to change the picture caption, as I'm pretty sure those aren't sandals. (The dark orange parts of the feet appear to be the shoe uppers, rather than a differently colored part of her socks.) However, that just seems ridiculously picky somehow. If anyone else has a good idea about this, feel free to implement it, I guess.--Apcog 16:05, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

I bet she is a robot thats why she has somehow managed to gain a connection to the All-Spark and also not be completly hated by the fandom yet Bobtherandomguy 00:19, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Adopted?
I'm curious... what's the source for Sari being adopted? CarrerCrytharis 06:46, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I think it was her official bio. --FFN 06:48, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
 * In the promo material that Unicron.com received, Sari's bio stated that she's adopted. --ItsWalky 07:47, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Well-liked character?
I'd really like to debate that she's "well-liked" so far - I personally hate her, the person I watch the show with hates her, and every Transformers fan I talk to hates her. So unless we're of a gross minority, I think it's safe to say her appeal is not universal. Combobreaker 09:27, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't hate her, therefore every fan doesn't hate her. You should try asking outside your social circle--Carrion 13:21, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
 * By no means was I trying to say that every fan hates her! I'm just personally annoyed by her being defined as a well-liked character when all of my fellow TF fans - including myself - hold no love for her.  And erm, I HAVE been asking outside my "social circle" and so far it's been nothing but "she's annoying" and "neutral."  Combobreaker 20:30, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
 * My own social circle also seems to find her rather amusing, so no hate from me or mine.Pacce 13:49, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Thus far, I kinda like her. JW 15:02, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I certainly prefer her than most of the UT kids (certainly anything is better than Kicker). -- SFH 16:29, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
 * She has a fairly unique interaction with the Autobots compared to past humans. She and Bumblebee make decent partners in crime, so I can see how this would appeal to kids.--RosicrucianTalk 16:33, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I personally like how she's the first girl in an American-made series to be the major human character, and she's a lot less annoying than any Witwiky, IMO. --Nightshade83 16:48, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Tara Strong is awesome. That is all. --FFN 17:04, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
 * This is true. Good writing + awesome voice actress = character that doesn't annoy me.--RosicrucianTalk 17:17, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
 * See, I love Tara Strong to death, but that doesn't make me automatically love all the characters she plays. The writing is decent (slightly above G1 level writing but not as good as, say, Avatar: The Last Airbender), but I find Sari's character to be little more than Generic Perky Girl with her Deus Ex Machina Key. I enjoyed Spike as a character more because he really WAS just a human, no "omg sekrit POWARZ" to make him more "interesting."  Combobreaker 20:30, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Spike didn't have powers? The guy and his entire family probably have an allergy to Kryptonite, and then there's the Headmaster thing. Also, calling Animated's writing slightly better than G1 gives the G1 cartoon way to much credit.--FortMax 00:00, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, Spike and the other Witwickys have 80s Cartoon Disease - just look at the other Hasbro show from the same time period, GI Joe. They were all "human" in the same way.  But Spike never whipped out his wallet and used it to revive Optimus Prime.  And frankly, I find a lot of the plot devices in TF:CHINS just as laughable as G1, only now with uglier art and more obnoxious humans.  In fact, that's WHY I find it watchable - the writing is so similar to G1's lulzy improbability that I enjoy it immensely, or at least enough to ignore the terrible art.  Anyway, I'm running speedily away from my point.  That is, I and every other TF fan I've talked to absolutely despise Sari.  Calling her "well liked, more so than usual" on her Wiki page Does Not Compute for me.  It's fine to call her a "generally liked character" or even just "a popular human character," but using the turn of phrase that's there now makes it seem like every TF fan everywhere absolutely adores her.


 * Hell, at this point I'd even take Kicker. At least his art style doesn't hurt my eyes. Combobreaker 01:25, 12 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Geez, give the art style a break already! People bitching about the art style reminds me of when Zelda: Windwaker first came out for the Gamecube.  People dismissed the game as "kiddie" just because of the cell-shading style, but it was actually a very enjoyable game, just as challenging as any other in the Zelda series.  Actually, Sari reminds me very much of Tetra in that game.


 * Just give it a chance. I actually prefer the stylized art over the overly-detailed 80's comic look of G1.  Plus, is Sari having her key really all that different than how the All Spark was used in the Movie?  Both are miraculous objects that completely ignore all known laws of physics and can bring robots to life/fix said robots in about 3 seconds flat.  At least in a cartoon that's somewhat more acceptable.--Nightshade83 01:35, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I've been giving it as much of a chance as I can. And no, sorry - Wind Waker at least had a consistent art style (which I happen to like).  TF:CHINS is all over the place, and I have screencaps of Sari LOOKING COOL. Er, that is to say, looking so poorly drawn that it's laughable.  I mean, I mostly like TF:CHINS, I really do.  And the "but the movie did it!" excuse doesn't quite fly in this case, because the movie at least had the excuse of being directed by Michael Bay.  Oh, and the movie didn't use it EVERY HALF HOUR.  'OHAI, it's a new episode, time for Sari to use her damn key for a totally random reason that in no way correlates to the way she used it last episode.' ANYWAY, POINT STILL BEING: I don't like her!  She is annoying.  All others that I have spoken to share this opinion.  It is not reasonable to DEFINE her as "well liked, more so than usual." Combobreaker 02:29, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
 * On this page, you are the only voice against. If some more people speak up here with a negative opinion of her (preferably, people who are regular editors on this wiki), we'll most likely change the page.  JW 03:28, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, that's frustrating. The only TF fans that count are the ones that edit this Wiki?  Lamesauce.  Combobreaker 05:34, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
 * No, but we're confident that fans who have contributed to this wiki aren't cranks shoutign their opinions at the top of their lungs and claiming everyone else agrees with them. The sort of person that might, say, show up on the wiki and make no edits except one declaring that the entire fandom agrees with him, and then (upon discovering that many peopel ehre do not) accuse the regulars here of being out of step with transfandom.
 * I'm not accusing you of this- the problem is that the vrank imposing his opinion on others and someone like yourself- actually (presumably) exressing the opinion of the majority-- are functionally impossible to distinguish in terms of behavior- they both show up out of the blue ont he wiki and make the same edits and have the same argument. So we have to say "Gee, if everyone thinks this, do most of us think this?"  And if the answer's no, we'll usually revert sweeping statements.  It's possible that we might be wrong and actually are out of step with transfandom... but it's the best system we have to guard against minority bias. -Derik 07:23, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
 * If you're not accusing me of this, why would you bring it up at all? I never implied that I was expressing the opinion of any majority anywhere, merely another facet of TF fandom.  Please, feel free to re-read my comments.  I want her popularity to be downplayed a little because I feel that it's unjustifiably overblown in the article.   Also note that I have made no edits at all for good reason; I would much rather talk about this and hope a more experienced editor can see reason and accommodate both views.  I hardly think me signing up for the wiki to pop onto the talk page and debate a single line in the "Notes" section of one character qualifies me as an OMG SABOTEUR. (That's Jazz. lulz.) I'm actually trying to be as least troll-like as possible here, but it's hard when I'm surrounded by people who are obviously huge fans of the character. Combobreaker 02:57, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Well we can't very well quantify "all others you have spoken to," no?--RosicrucianTalk 05:56, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Has anyone actually quantified the "reasonably well-liked" comment, either? The fandom is rather sprawled these days, across multiple forums, so I would assume that there's probably no shortage of negative opinion about Sari out there. --KilMichaelMcC 06:02, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I'd quantify it as "is tolerated/considered mildly amusing." That's my opinion of Sari- she's okay-- and as kid-avatar character go she's astonishingly non-annoying.  So 'reasonably well liked.'-Derik 07:23, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I feel justified in discounting the opinion of anyone who consistently refers to Animated as "TF:CHINS." --ItsWalky 06:07, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
 * So because I use a comical nickname for the show, I'm automatically discounted? Wow.  I guess I've been incredibly lucky, avoiding this elitist branch of TF-fandom thus far.  It looks like Michael is the only one here who is even willing to consider that there are TF fans that dislike this character. I'm a long-time lurker here and love the wiki, but this is just terrible.  I'm not asking for her page to say EVERYONE HATES SARI, SHE SUCKS - I'm just asking that it not read like we all fall over at her feet.  Combobreaker 06:50, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
 * But people who refer to Hillary Clinton by derisive nicknames in the course of conversation about her can reasonably be construed to have a negative bias against her. Thus casting doubt on your unbiased observation that everyone hates Sari.
 * Besides, you probably only hate her because she's a Paki. -Derik 07:23, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
 * LOLWHUT? I hate her for the reasons previously stated. Her race is a non-issue for me.  And I really don't consider TF:CHINS to be a 'derisive' nickname, I consider it amusing and fitting for the CHIN-CENTRIC art. Combobreaker 08:00, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Derik was only kidding about the race thing. I think. --FFN 14:20, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Leaving aside the question of why the opinion of a person who dislikes Animated's art style and uses a silly nickname while expressing said dislike should be automatically discounted, what I was trying to get at was this: How was the "Sari has been reasonably well liked, more so then usual" conclusion arrived at in the first place? --KilMichaelMcC 06:22, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
 * The "arglebarglebargleonlyrobotsoncybertron" folks have been conspicuously well-behaved of late.--RosicrucianTalk 06:28, 12 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Right. So lets go back to the UT kids: Carlos with his racial stereotypes, Bud with his inability to stay focused on anything for more than two seconds, and Kicker, who was physically abusive toward the Autobots. Sure, those are the types of characters that I want representing my species. -- SFH 02:32, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Don't forget Fred's inability to go five minutes without junk food. Also, Chip Chase is superhuman. The man is immune to acid rain that brought Autobots to their knees and can tear an 5¼" floppy disc in hald with his bear hands.--FortMax 02:51, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Don't forget that if this show was Japanese, Sari would be making out with Bumblebee on a regular basis and the point of view would be consistently at a below-skirt level. Personally, I love Sari.  Best human character in a TF series, as far as I'm concerned. Semysane 08:16, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Tyring to stay a bit on point here: The line "Sari has been reasonably well liked, more so then usual."

Now from what I've seen, it seems like some people like her, others dislike her (or just her Key-powers), and others seem fairly neutral about the character. The general reaction to the character I've observed doesn't seem like anything particularly worth noting in her article. --KilMichaelMcC 08:30, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
 * How about we modify it to say that she is one of the few human characters who have not caused a section of the Transformers fandom to declare holy war upon the human race in the Transformers fiction? --FFN 14:20, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Has anyone here besides Combobreaker voiced an opinion that contradicts "reasonably well liked, more so than usual"? If people don't like her deus ex machina key, that might make a valid separate point, but that's separate from liking her herself.  JW 14:32, 12 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I think that not even Combobreaker has voiced an opinion contrary to the statement. He doesn't like her, and the people he's talked to (before coming here) don't like her.  That doesn't make the statement inaccurate, because it is describing a generalized opinion of hundreds of active fans.  Apparently all the editors paying attention to this page feel that in their observations of other fans, Sari seems to have been better received than most humans.  The phrasing "reasonably well liked, more so than usual" doesn't even remotely mean "all the fans think she's great".  It means exactly what it says -- she is liked more than most human characters, ie. the majority of the fandom does not despise her.  As a rule of thumb, Transformers fans (treated as a homogeneous group) hate human sidekicks.  There are certainly pockets of the fandom that hate Sari.  But she is, on average, *not* hated.  That is definitely worthy of note.  --Steve-o 15:52, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Okay, but where are we pulling this "on average?" It can't be reasonably quantified any more than my own personal experiences with TF fans.  That is all I have been trying to get across here.  There's no link to any outside polls, discussions, or articles that talk about how popular she is with fans.  I find the "well liked, more so than usual" statement to be a little too all-encompassing for my tastes.  How about we just say she's "generally popular" or "mostly liked" instead? Combobreaker 02:42, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
 * 8 or nine people in this discussion disagree with you, and none agree. I'd call Sari pretty well liked unless the 8 or 9 of us are secretly the same guy. --FortMax 03:00, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
 * GAH, again with using this wiki's talk page to justify what's on the wiki! Oh god, the wikiality is suffocating me.  Look, in wikis, you are supposed to cite references.  Just because the people that hang out on a character's talk page are ga-ga over said character does NOT mean that the rest of the fandom shares the same opinion.  I AM NOT TRYING TO MOVE MOUNTAINS HERE. Please re-read my comment. I want her to just be noted as being "generally popular" or "mostly liked!"  How horrible of me!  I'm corrupting the TF fandom!  Jeez.  Combobreaker 03:06, 13 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Dude, you're not kidding when you say you're skilled at stirring up drama! As much as I do appreciate Sari as a character, you've made it QUITE clear that not everone shares that opinion.  Maybe something along the lines of "mostly well-liked" would be a reasonable alternative, if everyone else agrees.--Nightshade83 03:34, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, what's really crazy is I'm not even TRYING to stir up drama. At this point I'm convinced that almost everyone here is completely unwilling to acknowledge differing opinions in fandom - I really like your compromise and think that it would fit the real-world reception of her character.  (After all, others aside from me have noted in these comments that she is not universally liked!) However, it just seems like most people responding to me are overly hostile because I'm new and have a different opinion.  I'm getting called names for wanting a wiki article to be slightly edited? WTF? Combobreaker 07:50, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I say leave it the way it is. We shouldn't change the entry just because one loudmouth says we should.  Combobreaker, you say we aren't showing any polls or articles saying she is well liked.  Well... can you show us any polls or articles saying that she ISN'T well liked? Semysane 05:54, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Again, point missed. The way she's referred to in this article makes it seem as though every TF fan everywhere loves her.  They don't, and people other than me have said as much on this talk page.  Combobreaker 07:50, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
 * We're also supposed to find consensus. We think we have.  If you want to argue our consensus is not representative maybe you should be citing references to support your point. -Derik 07:09, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I am so frustrated by this sort of attitude on any wiki. Just because you are the majority here does not make you the majority everywhere else.  I am here representing a differing opinion, which, as NEITHER are easily citable I think BOTH are equally valid.  Your personal experience dictates that Sari is popular.  Fine, that's awesome.  My own personal experience - maybe because I talk almost exclusively to G1 fans - says that she's despised.  In this situation I think it's perfectly reasonable to just turn the love on her wiki down a notch, because right now it's going to 11.  I'd like to at least see it backed off to an 8. Combobreaker 07:50, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
 * You offer no evidence for your position other than anecdotes.--RosicrucianTalk 14:53, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Same for the statement that currently stands. Just asking it to be toned down a bit. Combobreaker 20:26, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Do you really think that "reasonably well liked, more so than usual" is an 11?
 * Have you considered taking a break from this discussion (which, after all, does not need to be decided today), and spending some time contributing elsewhere in the wiki? I'm sure you have a great deal to offer toward making this wiki a better and more informative document, so you shouldn't let this one trivia point occupy all your time.  JW 10:05, 13 February 2008 (EST)
 * Please read the comments on this page from other people. KilMichaelMcC has said "it seems like some people like her, others dislike her (or just her Key-powers), and others seem fairly neutral about the character" and Derik says she is "is tolerated/considered mildly amusing." That's less general than what is there now.
 * Oh, and do me a favor and Google "Sari Sumdac" and tell me what the first result says about her. Combobreaker 20:12, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
 * PS: I really want to contribute to this wiki, but believe it or not, I thought I'd start with something small. I had no idea I'd start such a mess just by wanting a character's unquantified popularity slightly edited.  That's why I stuck to the talk page instead of editing it myself - didn't want to just jump into editing the wiki itself and piss people off.  Somehow managed to do that anyway, but... oh well.  Combobreaker 20:26, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Don't worry too much about it, dude. Contributions will be judged on their own merits.  This issue seems to have been solved to your satisfaction with Repowers'a edit; I don't think anyone will object to you continuing to contribute.  If they do, they'll let you know what and why at the time. /:) --Sntint 20:35, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

I am still uncertain that fandom reaction to Sari is particularly noteworthy at all. Is it really any different from, say, the reaction to the Cybertron kids? --KilMichaelMcC 06:15, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I think I love you, man, you have been nothing but reasonable and moderate here. I would comment here but I never got into Cybertron, so I'm a little sketchy on the human characters.  Suffice it to say that I think trying to define a new character as being universally liked in the Transformers fandom is quite a feat.  Combobreaker 07:50, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
 * It does NOT say that she is universally well liked by ANY stretch of the imagination! It says she is "reasonably well-liked, more so than usual," basically meaning that many fans like her BETTER than most other human characters, not that we think she's the mesiah or something.  Semysane 08:51, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Repowers's edit
Well done, Repowers. I can comfortably live with that. JW 15:16, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Awesome, that's all I wanted. I'm happy now, and reasonably amused that I managed to somehow spawn a talk thread that ended up longer than the article itself. Combobreaker 20:23, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Not human?
That's a whoooole big block of text discussing what is pretty much entirely fanwank. Do we really need this?--RosicrucianTalk 18:34, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Hmn, it is a bit overlong, actually. Still, I think something from it needs noting, because Tara Strong's interview and the events of "Megatron Rising" make it clear that there's SOMETHING unusual about Sari. We could just chop back on the random theories as to what she is, which are all fan-cooked-up. - Chris McFeely 18:37, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
 * That's a reason I put in the whole "counterpoints" thing. Reminding them that canon is against them, so stop the fanwanking. -- SFH 18:39, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
 * 3 months ago I guessed Sari was a robot and posted it in this discussion article if this turns out to be true I totally called it. Bobtherandomguy 00:20, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Things that don't exist
Seeing how she, legally, doesn't exist, should she get added to that category? Or is that reserved for things that um...in-fictionally-actually? don't exist?Omnibus 21:44, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
 * It can all be answered with one question: does she think? -- SFH 22:02, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm... Not sure if that question can be answered.--Dynamus Prime 22:09, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
 * We should blank this whole article. There is no information on a 'Sari Sumdac'.  (Maybe write that up at the very top and then require page-ing down like 5 times to get at the content, as Chip suggested).  --Thylacine 2000 22:53, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I tried it to see what it would look like, and I think it works. I imagine we'll change it back if her legal status changes later on. Chip 23:17, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
 * So... are we using the joke or not, now? I think it was a work of genius. - Semysane 06:14, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
 * "Work of genius" or not... when the joke gets in the way of getting information in this wiki, I think it becomes a bad thing. I'm glad the joke is gone, personally. --Detour 06:59, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Sari is a Human from the Animated franchise

 * Sari Sumdac is a human from the Transformers Animated franchise.

But is she Really? I know we don't want fan theories, but how about a little bit of a joke. I mean, I've often seen these bits written amusingly on our Wiki.
 * Sari Sumdac is a human from the Transformers Animated franchise. Probably. Or she could be a Robot. or maybe a Squid-Creature. We're not all that sure right now to be honest....

Shadow Mask Prime 18:10, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Sounds pretty good to me. Made me chuckle. - Semysane 23:30, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
 * One vote for... none against... I think I will try the change. If anyone spots it, and thinks it is a bad idea, then feel free to change it back to normal, and join the "debate" here... It can easily be changed back (the original is still here, and all I've done is added something to the end). Shadow Mask Prime 12:05, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
 * No. --ItsWalky 13:53, 30 April 2008 (UTC)