Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Anon or not

Anonymous edits

 * ''Moved from Archive 11

Lately, I've been looking at wikis that have decided to turn off anonymous edits, and have everybody log in before contributing to the wiki. The idea is that having everybody log in builds a stronger sense of community, because you always have a name to associate with an edit, rather than a random string of numbers. It's easier to talk to people who have names. It also gives you more control over vandalism, since you can recognize potential vandals more easily.

Some people don't like the idea, because they're worried that logging in is a barrier to entry -- if you have to log in to edit, then you won't bother, and you'll go away. Looking at the wikis that require login, that doesn't seem to be true. Muppet Wiki turned off anon edits last April, and the number of active editors has actually gone up. Some of our most active wikis require login -- World of Warcraft, FFXIclopedia, Tibia Wiki and Marvel Database. (WoW and FFXI actually require a confirmed e-mail address before you can edit.)

So I've been talking to folks about this, and we've decided to allow wiki communities to turn off anonymous edits if they want to. There are a lot of anonymous editors here, so I'm wondering what you guys think about it. Would it be helpful to require login for everybody?

Obviously, that's a big community decision... I just want to throw out the possibility, and see what you think. -- Danny (talk ) 20:38, 27 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I strongly oppose disabling anonymous edits! (I also oppose sweeping changes performed over botcon, and unilaterally re-skining the site when the community can argue for weeks or month about proposed style changes to individual templates without reaching a consensus-- but if you're willing to ignore the needs of registered users while making such 'big community decisions,' why would you listen to anon users?)  -75.168.112.43 08:18, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, let's get an opposing viewpoint here. Why are you, 75.168.112.43, unwilling to get an account?  JW 11:16, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
 * You assume I don't have an account.
 * I strongly oppose disabling anonymous edits because;
 * It puts up a gateway that discourages first time users. Not a tall gateway- but a gateway nonetheless.  Even if it only turns back 30% of new editors, that's 30% of people who could potentially become productive members of the community we're turning away out of hand.
 * Equally important to the new users are the 'casual fixers', people who will /never/ become regulars on this wiki but, while clicking around, notice a link leading to Megatron instead of Megatron (G1). If they have to register to make that simple fix?  9 times out of 10 that kind of fix will not get done.
 * The problem 'disabling anonymous edits' seeks to fix- trolls- will not be solved. We already have trolls who register for accounts-- right now we don't even require an e-mail address.  So next to combat Troll,s we'll require all accounts to have e-mail addresses.  Then we'll require those e-mails be verified, then maybe we'll set up a system where new users have to be approved like so many online communities before they can use their account.  IP Tracking!  Requiring Persistent Cookies!  Each and any of these steps makes the online experience just a little bit more unpleasant for the user (and each hoop to jump throuhg makes new users just a little disinclined to join) but none of them actually stops trolls!  Clear your cache, sign up for a yahoo account and you're up and running again.  The trolls that regularly bother TT1 have already demonstrated they are willing to go to these lengths to evade bans.  I am opposed to any measure that would punish the general body of users (registered and non) to deal with trolls.  I am strongly opposed to any measure that would punish users and not deal with trolls, which is what this promises to do.


 * And seriously- while I'm tickled to death to know that the 'wikia community developer' has been attracted to communities that place restrictions on their users, I'm not thrilled to see someone who's not part of the community lobbying that we become more insular. I think changing TT1 to a UI that's different from Wikipedia makes the site harder to use (both for new users, and for users who make contributions to multiple wikis) is an objectively bad decision that was made with little discussion because 'it looks better.'  And I really dislike that this was done while everyone was gone at Botcon and it was impossible to form a quorum for proper discussion.  Monorail guy dances into town and starts making global changes that he thinks 'make more sense' without understanding that they were that way for a reason, and his whims would require massive secondary cleanup effort to enact.  I don't think someone who's not a participating member of this community should be initiating that kind of change, or throwing his weight behind them for them while 'polling for consensus.  On a more fundamental level- I'm suspicious about external voices telling us how we should be running this wiki, because sooner or later they're gong to tell us The Funny Should Go.
 * I feel the burden of proof is on the other side here-- show that there will be a concrete and measurable improvement to the wiki by disabling anonymous edits that will NOT place an unnecessary burden on users. -75.168.112.43 12:38, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
 * "You assume I don't have an account." Well, then, please tell us why you aren't willing to use it.  I'm truly curious.  JW 13:04, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
 * More to the point, the IP address 75.168.112.43 has only made 10 contributions to this wiki, of which only 4 are of actual substance. Your comments will carry more weight if you tell us which long-established editor you in fact are.  Otherwise, you ' re the "external voice telling us how we should be running this wiki".  JW 13:16, 28 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I oppose to disable anonymous edit, too. I was once a anonymous user . If the anonymous edit is disabled, that would mean we close the door for many potential users-to-be. Though I hate anonymous vandalizing, which is really a problem. But any bad anonymous user can get an account to vandalize, too. Urgh.--TX55 13:56, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

The Funny Should Definitely Not Go. The reason why I've been hanging out on this wiki lately is because I like it -- specifically, because I like the Funny. I don't want to annoy people or screw stuff up; I'm just trying to help out in ways that I know how to help.

I didn't unilaterally change the skin... If you look above, the conversation about the skin started on April 7th. On Thursday, I asked if there were any more comments before I switched it over. The only response was from ItsWalky, who indicated that it would be okay. I've been keeping an eye on the stats -- the number of edits, registrations and pageviews have all gone up since the wiki switched to Monaco. (Saturday was the highest single day for registrations on the wiki since January.)

As I said, anonymous edits is totally a community decision. I just wanted to let you know that it's an option if the community wants it. It's a long-term discussion, and I don't have an interest in pushing it one way or the other. -- Danny (talk ) 14:31, 28 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I would be against restricting edits to registered members. This wiki already has a reputation in the Transformers community as alledgedly being the playground for a very specific group of fans. Restricting edits will only further this perception. But more importantly:


 * I tend to agree that if one has no intention of making significant edits, but very occassionally fixes minor mistakes that one sees, then one shouldn't be forced to register to do so.


 * Some of us would prefer not to login while accessing the wiki at school or at work. Yeah, we have our reasons.


 * Chris McFeely, one of our staff members, sometimes has trouble logging onto the wiki when he's not at home, so if we restrict edits to logged-in users, he can't make any contributions if he happens to have free time while out and about.


 * Good anonymous editors sometimes eventually become registered members if they find they enjoy making the edits and would to participate in the little community we have.


 * Trolls and vandals who go to the effort of being repeat offenders will not be scared off by a registration process. I think we'll find that these people have alot of free time on their hands. Even more than I do!


 * --FFN 15:03, 28 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I'd be more willing to believe that the increase in edits on Saturday was due to the new skin if Saturday didn't happen to be the day most of the BotCon panels were held. Those give us a lot of new information that needs to be added to the wiki. Plus, two (or three) new episodes were shown that morning: Return of the Headmaster in the US, Mission Accomplished in Canada, and Collect and Save at Botcon. --FortMax 15:46, 28 April 2008 (UTC)


 * No kidding. You could've changed the site to pink-and-purple polka dots, and traffic still would've increased this weekend, with everyone fighting to be the first to add all the new scraps of information from the convention. --Xaaron 17:05, 28 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm no one special on this wiki, but I wanted to weigh in. Considering that everything else on the web seems to require a login, it isn't asking too much for people to sign up. All the forums require a login so people can own their opinions, why not here? Also, isn't most of the caption bastardry done by anons? Maybe forcing registration might stop some of those careless edits. Requiring an email? Now that might scare people off.--Suzyprime 04:51, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Logging in

 * ''Moved from Archive 12

This wiki is in a big transition period right now, and it's going to take a little while to settle down and figure out what this new version is going to look like. One thing that's making that process harder is that there are so many people contributing anonymously right now. Some of those contributions are great, and some are problematic -- and sorting through them takes a lot of time and energy, which we could spend on building up content and talking about community issues (as I've mentioned elsewhere).

So I want to bring up the option of having people log in before they edit. Some of the most successful wikis on Wikia are login-only, including WoWWiki, Muppet Wiki and Marvel Database. Most of the successful independent wikis are login-only too, like Lostpedia and Battlestar Wiki.

The advantage for the community is that everybody gets a name, rather than a shifting string of numbers. Even when an anonymous contributor is making great edits, it's hard to talk to them, or recognize them when they show up the next day. It also helps to cut down on vandalism. Obviously, vandals can just log in and do it anyway, but having a name makes them easier to spot. Wikis that have chosen to go login-only have found that it makes the community more friendly, because everybody's got a consistent identity, and it's easier to get to know people. It's also something that was really prevalent in the previous form of this wiki - good people get known for doing good things and it builds up a reputation.

I'd like to try it for a little while during this transition period, to see how it works. What do you guys think? Shawn ( talk ) 19:05, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
 * It doesn't seem like a good idea when you are trying to rebuild a contributer base. People who don't sign in probably aren't planning on sticking around long, but might anyway after a while. I wouldn't make it harder for a casual new person to make updates.Starfield 19:27, 17 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I strongly endorse this idea as a clear path forward for this site! -150.253.90.123 19:43, 17 September 2008 (UTC)


 * This has come up on several wikis I've been on, and I've never really liked the idea. Currently, most of the users here now are anonymous users. We should make it easier to allow people to log in, and let them know that it will get the adds out of their faces. However, I still think that we should allow anonymous users to edit. They are the bulk of a wikis community. -- SFH 19:08, 18 September 2008 (UTC)


 * In my opinion, I think we should promote user-name registration instead of just switching off anonymous editing for at least two reasons:
 * Not all anonymous users are frequently editors, some of them may just pass by and find some problems(grammars, broken links, etc) and fix them by editing. IE, pass-by-correction.
 * Some users have their problem with logging during working time and some other circumstances.
 * -- TX55   TALK  00:30, 19 September 2008 (UTC)


 * This is an interesting conversation, because it's something that's been in discussion in the Wikia office for a couple of years now. For a long time, we didn't support this, it was open editing on all sites.  Then a couple of wikis joined us that already had login-only set up, and a couple of others asked for it for themselves.  We took some persuading, but we started allowing it.  Now I'm still in the "somewhat dubious" group, but changing to this seems to have been a success for the wikis that have tried it.  They say they see less vandalism, and have a stronger feeling of community because they know the "names" of everyone contributing.  So it may be that this can help you rebuild the community here rather than hinder it.  Perhaps those pass-by editors will be more likely to return if they have made an account to attach those edits to. Just some thoughts :) -- sannse (talk) 16:46, 19 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Yeah, that's my logic behind it. It's been proven to work on other sites specifically because it fosters a sense of community. Truth be told, the majority of the users on the previous version were all logged in as well, and it seemed to really work to the wiki's advantage. Shawn ( talk ) 17:39, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

I was just looking at the Allspark Forums, and I noticed that to post or even search on that forum, you need to sign in and verify your e-mail address. That seems like a strange double-standard to me. Imagine being told on this wiki that you couldn't search for an article unless you provided a valid e-mail address! Compared to that, being asked to create a user name in order to post on a wiki is pretty tame.

Why are the standards so different between forums and wikis? -- Danny (talk ) 17:33, 20 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I think what some people are assuming is that this would be permanent - - in my original post I suggested doing it as an experiment for a short time (week or two) to see if it actually does affect the wiki. I think we're in a stage right now where experimentation wouldn't hurt, and testing the waters of different things can only be a win/win situation. If it works in our favor, fantastic! If not, we haven't done any damage as we're still in a big period of change.


 * If it turns out we drive any anonymous people away during the experiment, well, we still have all the power of Google directing people here, so we won't be starving for a constant influx of new users no matter what happens. And having a solid community based on users who know one another is what we really need to try and get. Leaving it open for a week has gotten a few people to sign up but we still have a ton of anonymous users - I want to see how login only affects the edits and amount of new usernames we can get. Shawn ( talk ) 18:00, 22 September 2008 (UTC)