Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive 11

Anonymous edits
Lately, I've been looking at wikis that have decided to turn off anonymous edits, and have everybody log in before contributing to the wiki. The idea is that having everybody log in builds a stronger sense of community, because you always have a name to associate with an edit, rather than a random string of numbers. It's easier to talk to people who have names. It also gives you more control over vandalism, since you can recognize potential vandals more easily.

Some people don't like the idea, because they're worried that logging in is a barrier to entry -- if you have to log in to edit, then you won't bother, and you'll go away. Looking at the wikis that require login, that doesn't seem to be true. Muppet Wiki turned off anon edits last April, and the number of active editors has actually gone up. Some of our most active wikis require login -- World of Warcraft, FFXIclopedia, Tibia Wiki and Marvel Database. (WoW and FFXI actually require a confirmed e-mail address before you can edit.)

So I've been talking to folks about this, and we've decided to allow wiki communities to turn off anonymous edits if they want to. There are a lot of anonymous editors here, so I'm wondering what you guys think about it. Would it be helpful to require login for everybody?

Obviously, that's a big community decision... I just want to throw out the possibility, and see what you think. -- Danny (talk ) 20:38, 27 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I strongly oppose disabling anonymous edits! (I also oppose sweeping changes performed over botcon, and unilaterally re-skining the site when the community can argue for weeks or month about proposed style changes to individual templates without reaching a consensus-- but if you're willing to ignore the needs of registered users while making such 'big community decisions,' why would you listen to anon users?)  -75.168.112.43 08:18, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, let's get an opposing viewpoint here. Why are you, 75.168.112.43, unwilling to get an account?  JW 11:16, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
 * You assume I don't have an account.
 * I strongly oppose disabling anonymous edits because;
 * It puts up a gateway that discourages first time users. Not a tall gateway- but a gateway nonetheless.  Even if it only turns back 30% of new editors, that's 30% of people who could potentially become productive members of the community we're turning away out of hand.
 * Equally important to the new users are the 'casual fixers', people who will /never/ become regulars on this wiki but, while clicking around, notice a link leading to Megatron instead of Megatron (G1). If they have to register to make that simple fix?  9 times out of 10 that kind of fix will not get done.
 * The problem 'disabling anonymous edits' seeks to fix- trolls- will not be solved. We already have trolls who register for accounts-- right now we don't even require an e-mail address.  So next to combat Troll,s we'll require all accounts to have e-mail addresses.  Then we'll require those e-mails be verified, then maybe we'll set up a system where new users have to be approved like so many online communities before they can use their account.  IP Tracking!  Requiring Persistent Cookies!  Each and any of these steps makes the online experience just a little bit more unpleasant for the user (and each hoop to jump throuhg makes new users just a little disinclined to join) but none of them actually stops trolls!  Clear your cache, sign up for a yahoo account and you're up and running again.  The trolls that regularly bother TT1 have already demonstrated they are willing to go to these lengths to evade bans.  I am opposed to any measure that would punish the general body of users (registered and non) to deal with trolls.  I am strongly opposed to any measure that would punish users and not deal with trolls, which is what this promises to do.


 * And seriously- while I'm tickled to death to know that the 'wikia community developer' has been attracted to communities that place restrictions on their users, I'm not thrilled to see someone who's not part of the community lobbying that we become more insular. I think changing TT1 to a UI that's different from Wikipedia makes the site harder to use (both for new users, and for users who make contributions to multiple wikis) is an objectively bad decision that was made with little discussion because 'it looks better.'  And I really dislike that this was done while everyone was gone at Botcon and it was impossible to form a quorum for proper discussion.  Monorail guy dances into town and starts making global changes that he thinks 'make more sense' without understanding that they were that way for a reason, and his whims would require massive secondary cleanup effort to enact.  I don't think someone who's not a participating member of this community should be initiating that kind of change, or throwing his weight behind them for them while 'polling for consensus.  On a more fundamental level- I'm suspicious about external voices telling us how we should be running this wiki, because sooner or later they're gong to tell us The Funny Should Go.
 * I feel the burden of proof is on the other side here-- show that there will be a concrete and measurable improvement to the wiki by disabling anonymous edits that will NOT place an unnecessary burden on users. -75.168.112.43 12:38, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
 * "You assume I don't have an account." Well, then, please tell us why you aren't willing to use it.  I'm truly curious.  JW 13:04, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
 * More to the point, the IP address 75.168.112.43 has only made 10 contributions to this wiki, of which only 4 are of actual substance. Your comments will carry more weight if you tell us which long-established editor you in fact are.  Otherwise, you ' re the "external voice telling us how we should be running this wiki".  JW 13:16, 28 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I oppose to disable anonymous edit, too. I was once a anonymous user . If the anonymous edit is disabled, that would mean we close the door for many potential users-to-be. Though I hate anonymous vandalizing, which is really a problem. But any bad anonymous user can get an account to vandalize, too. Urgh.--TX55 13:56, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

The Funny Should Definitely Not Go. The reason why I've been hanging out on this wiki lately is because I like it -- specifically, because I like the Funny. I don't want to annoy people or screw stuff up; I'm just trying to help out in ways that I know how to help.

I didn't unilaterally change the skin... If you look above, the conversation about the skin started on April 7th. On Thursday, I asked if there were any more comments before I switched it over. The only response was from ItsWalky, who indicated that it would be okay. I've been keeping an eye on the stats -- the number of edits, registrations and pageviews have all gone up since the wiki switched to Monaco. (Saturday was the highest single day for registrations on the wiki since January.)

As I said, anonymous edits is totally a community decision. I just wanted to let you know that it's an option if the community wants it. It's a long-term discussion, and I don't have an interest in pushing it one way or the other. -- Danny (talk ) 14:31, 28 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I would be against restricting edits to registered members. This wiki already has a reputation in the Transformers community as alledgedly being the playground for a very specific group of fans. Restricting edits will only further this perception. But more importantly:


 * I tend to agree that if one has no intention of making significant edits, but very occassionally fixes minor mistakes that one sees, then one shouldn't be forced to register to do so.


 * Some of us would prefer not to login while accessing the wiki at school or at work. Yeah, we have our reasons.


 * Chris McFeely, one of our staff members, sometimes has trouble logging onto the wiki when he's not at home, so if we restrict edits to logged-in users, he can't make any contributions if he happens to have free time while out and about.


 * Good anonymous editors sometimes eventually become registered members if they find they enjoy making the edits and would to participate in the little community we have.


 * Trolls and vandals who go to the effort of being repeat offenders will not be scared off by a registration process. I think we'll find that these people have alot of free time on their hands. Even more than I do!


 * --FFN 15:03, 28 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I'd be more willing to believe that the increase in edits on Saturday was due to the new skin if Saturday didn't happen to be the day most of the BotCon panels were held. Those give us a lot of new information that needs to be added to the wiki. Plus, two (or three) new episodes were shown that morning: Return of the Headmaster in the US, Mission Accomplished in Canada, and Collect and Save at Botcon. --FortMax 15:46, 28 April 2008 (UTC)


 * No kidding. You could've changed the site to pink-and-purple polka dots, and traffic still would've increased this weekend, with everyone fighting to be the first to add all the new scraps of information from the convention. --Xaaron 17:05, 28 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm no one special on this wiki, but I wanted to weigh in. Considering that everything else on the web seems to require a login, it isn't asking too much for people to sign up. All the forums require a login so people can own their opinions, why not here? Also, isn't most of the caption bastardry done by anons? Maybe forcing registration might stop some of those careless edits. Requiring an email? Now that might scare people off.--Suzyprime 04:51, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Image overlap
Umm, did this overlap happen before the new skin? If so, I never noticed it. If not, then why is it changing what goes on inside the content part of the site, not just the menus and adds and umm, everything that I can't edit as an anon? Spriteless 04:04, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
 * We're trying to figure it out over on User Talk:Toughpigs.--RosicrucianTalk 04:08, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
 * That particular overlap always happened- but the transparent frame was apparently a result of some global CSS change Wikia made ~4-6 months ago.
 * It looks like the fix was posted on the monobook.css discussion page, but never implemented. -75.168.112.43 05:25, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
 * (Oh, i see this was already discussed. Hrm.) -75.168.112.43 05:43, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
 * The problem with overlaps like on the Blackthorne Publishing page in the image can be solved by putting one of these in, which I just did on that page. --KilMichaelMcC 05:59, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

I've had a slightly different problem with image overlap in the past few days. If there's a stub box or a "needs images" box on a page, occasionally the box's pic will remain stuck at the top of the page. For instance, in the example on the right, Kup's pic would be stuck in the top left corner, covering part of the Blackthorne Publishing title bar. It has also happened on the front page, with Jhiaxus's image from the featured article covering the Primes. --Xaaron 05:41, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
 * What broswer? (The messagebox template uses styles that render differently on IE and Geko-based browsers... but the difference shoudl eb cosmetic, not functional like that.) -75.168.112.43 05:43, 29 April 2008 (UTC)




 * IE6. Like the guy below said, it's usually self correcting on larger pages. I've noticed the effect lingers mostly on really short articles. I've been deorphaning individual weapon pages recently (Gravito-gun, Incendiary sword, etc), and the Thundercracker w/Reflector image almost always gets stuck. --Xaaron 15:20, 29 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I saw the case several time. When the page is loading, the box's pic such as AniMeg's head or Kup will remain stuck on the page, but soon it will be back to the right place. It only happen when I use the IE6 (log in or not).
 * Speaking of the image problem, it reminds me of another one. When open page with IE (well, 6), some images will be "slashed" by a line, just like the picture shows. --TX55 08:06, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
 * It doesn't appear to be happening on IE7. This sounds like a rendering issue with IE.  (One of many...)  Doesn't mean it doesn't need to be accomodated though.
 * When an image gets stuck int the top-left, is that in IE? What happens when you resize the window?  -75.168.112.43 08:13, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
 * When use IE6, the image only gets stuck in the left of the top when the page is loading. After the page completes loading, all things are back to normal. If I resize the window to small when loading, the image gets stuck in the left of the bottom instead, but back to normal after finishing loading. So, it won't become a problem for me. :D --TX55 10:08, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Did this ever get fixed? Right now I see the image borders opaque in IE7, but transparent in Firefox, and Safari. (Hey, Safari is out for PC's! I thought it was still forthcoming.) -150.253.90.167 00:41, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Monaco top-of-article spam
This is new, right? -75.168.112.43 09:03, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
 * IIRC, it has existed for a while. --TX55 10:03, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Ugh, is there a way to turn it off?
 * We downgraded visibility of the 'pics needed' templates precisely because we didn't think it was right to harass the 91% of our wiki user who are just readers with demands they join and contribute. -75.168.112.43 10:10, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
 * It's awful and absurd. I don't know if I can deal with it myself-- we may need to get one of the Wikia sorts to get rid of it. I'm absolutely going to dig in my heels on this. This is not an arguably helpful UI function, this really is just harassing our users. --Suki Brits 11:07, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
 * It is very easy to turn off, and it is not a function of the switch to Monaco. Go to Preferences, then Editing, then uncheck "Enable similar articles suggestions." Easy-peasy.--RosicrucianTalk 13:55, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
 * There's also a "Thank you for your Edit, try doing these other 3 random pages," which has also been around for about a week even on Monobook, and which I assume can be disabled by the same method just described. --Thylacine 2000 14:15, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Yep, that would be "Preferences, Editing, Enable similar articles suggestions". :D --TX55 15:31, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I would imagine that is what Rosicrucian's talking about. Obviously anonymous users can't change their prefrences to turn that off; they don't have any. The suggestions aren't really problematic, but sticking a notice at the top of random pages for the majority of users saying "HEY YOU SHOULD TOTALLY REGISTER STOP READING THIS ARTICLE THAT DOESN'T MATTER JUST REGISTER FOR THE SITE SO YOU DON'T HAVE TO LOOK AT THIS ANNOYING NOTICE" is incredibly unacceptable. I believe I've managed to set it to be hidden, but it's hard to tell. Let me know if that resurfaces. --Suki Brits 15:03, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Recentchanges colours missing
Whereas before, the (+X)/(-X) values would be in green/red (and bold for especially large changes), they are now neither coloured nor bolded. - SanityOrMadness 16:20, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
 * They still look colored to me.--Apcog 17:00, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm seeing black (+X) too. Suki Brits added some code to MediaWiki:Common.css this morning, and accidentally took out all of the .css code that was there as part of the default, including the recent changes colors. If you want, you can restore it by copying the default code here. The recent changes colors are controlled by this code:

/* Recent changes byte indicators */ .mw-plusminus-pos { color: #006500; } .mw-plusminus-neg { color: #8B0000; }


 * -- Danny (talk ) 17:30, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Bizarre. It's all back in now; apparently MediaWiki:Common.css adds some content (including those colours) by default if the page doesn't exist, which was quite unexpected. --Suki Brits 18:29, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, the MediaWiki default pages are stored centrally, but can be overwritten locally on a wiki. If Wikia needs to update the default sitewide, you don't have to go into into 5,000 individual wikis and change the page. But if the local wiki has edited the MediaWiki page, then that overwrites the default. -- Danny (talk ) 20:49, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Templates mangled?
Template:Merge and Template:Split are both still titled "HELP US" but have had the Megatron/Ratchet image removed. I assume this was a mistake, since nobody would deliberately do something so ugly and pointless. How do we get them back? --Thylacine 2000 20:11, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I just checked out Merge, and it looks fine to me. JW 20:20, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Spoiler lock-out template

 * I vote for either protecting *ALL* Animated character pages, or setting them to be untouchable by anonymous editors, or both. I'm fucking sick of dubbed scuttlebutt killing the first story developments worth a damn we've had in 9 years.  Almost nobody has actually legitimately seen these episodes; most people are just wanking over screenshots and summaries.  Let's really try to keep as free of it as possible, is my vote.  --Thylacine 2000 01:41, 14 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Far be it from me to suggest following Wikipedia's lead, but one thing that other wiki does to stop massive edit wars or mass-vandalism on specific articles, an admin will lock the page to anon user and new accounts with instructions posted at the top of the article to leave a message on the talk page if you are unable to make a valid edit. We could save ourselves a bunch of time (and from being spoiled) by putting a similar block on the involved pages and put up a template that says something like the following:
 * Does Prime die? (goes best with screencap from commercial)
 * The subject of this article is involved with major spoilers in fiction not yet available in major markets. To avoid spoiling people, editing for anonymous users and new accounts has been disabled. If you are unable made a non-spoiler edit to this page, please leave a message describing the edit to be made on this article's talk page. --FortMax 01:44, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
 * McFeely semi-protected Sari's page after my recommendation (and a major spoiler was added) so I guess we should probably do that as well. -- SFH 02:00, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I like FortMax's idea...perhaps we should extend this to all of the episodes that thus far have not aired in English-speaking countries, as well. --Professor Icepick 02:48, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I endorse FortMax's idea wholeheartedly. This wiki should not be a breeding ground for rampant spoilers. -- Repowers 03:00, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Here's what I've managed to tool up. I've made it garishly yellow to draw attention to it.

Whaddaya think?--RosicrucianTalk 03:03, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

That...is awesome. --Professor Icepick 03:08, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Perfect --FortMax 03:16, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

What they said. *two thumbs up* -- Repowers 03:20, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Don't think it could be better. --Sntint 03:40, 14 May 2008 (UTC)


 * ...but if you really want a consensus, a page that people may avoid on sight of the title may not be the best place to test it out? I don't really think anyone will have a problem with it, anyway. --Sntint 03:42, 14 May 2008 (UTC)


 * I hate to jump on the bandwagon, but I dig it.--AWT88 03:48, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

FIRE AT WILL. If it's not too much of a hassle, can this be done for ALL Animated character / vehicle / object / beyond-Canada episode pages? Maybe something important has already happened to the AllSpark or Bulkhead, and nobody has blabbed about it yet, but will decide to next week. Why continue to basically force some staff members to be on Spoiler Reading Patrol, when we can just nip more problems in the bud?--Thylacine 2000 17:48, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I endorse Thy's campaign fully. Let's semiprotect the fuck outta those pages. --M Sipher 19:41, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Lost molds
Hi I had this idea for a article on lost,broken and worn out molds. This would be my first article for this or any wiki and since I'm still a n00b around here I wanted to ask for permission first.Dead Metal 19:14, 15 May 2008 (UTC) So just give me the green light and I'll do it.
 * I'd take a look at the mold article, first. It's kind of nowhere at the moment. I dunno how much there is to say about lost molds; nobody really seems to know what happens to them, and no definitive list exists of toys whose molds are lost/destroyed.  They'd probably be better served a subsection of the Mold article. -- Repowers 18:56, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Maybe, but I could bring in some vague ideas of what might have happened to them and stuff fans believe, as a bit of comic relief.
 * And then there are the exhausted molds that will never see release again since they have been used to often, the list might get long.
 * But if it's best just a sub thing from the existing article, then OK.Dead Metal 19:14, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I think a subsection would be better, considering "vague idea" is indeed all we really know about the situation. If we had a wealth of accurate info, that'd be different, but we don't.  Just one example... more than once, "lost forever" molds have seemingly resurfaced.  A list of molds that are known to be lost or worn out would certainly be a worthwhile addition to the existing article, though. -- Repowers 19:30, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
 * OK, expect it up on Monday, since I'll be to pissed for the next two days and will use -sunday to gather all the info and write it up on word then just copy, past and edit it on here.Dead Metal 12:13, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Alt modes
I went over the guidelines and discussion archives, but for the life of me I was never able to figure out why a Transformer's alt mode isn't listed at the page intro and the only way to find out what it is is to go to the toy section or skim the plot section. What's up with that?86.51.3.194 08:47, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Not sure about that policy, but it would be nice, especially since a character could have a different alt mode in various fictions. --MistaTee 10:14, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I see what you did there. -hx 10:29, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

"References"
I am going to start stabbing people soon. It seems like every day we have to delete a dozen samples of "well this dimly kinda sorta reminds me of this thing from TFs SO ITS A REFERENCE!!!". I'm beginning to think that every "References" section in TFA needs to open with a warning about making goddamn sure it actually is one... for all the good it would do. Come on, people. TFA is not subtle with its references. --M Sipher 15:53, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
 * BUT MAN THAT PART WHERE THE GUY DID THAT THING IS TOTALLY A REFERENCE TO MY FAVORITE COMIC BOOK/ANIME/VIDEO GAME THAT YOU'VE JUST NEVER HEARD OF BECAUSE YOU'RE A RETARD IT'S SO OBVIOUS DUDE. -hx 16:00, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

We need a user talkpage template for this. It'll get a LOT of use, I'm sure. Every damn DAY. --M Sipher 15:59, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Message box for people who don't bother to include info and/or copyrights with uploads
Do we have a message box for people who repeatedly upload images in rapid succession without bothering to include any copyright info (or ANY info)? If not, we need one, because I'm tired of leaving messages for people to do the right thing and check our image policy, and I'm sure other regular contributors are tired of doing this as well. --FFN 06:32, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, for a brief period I was just glad that we have an image policy set down now so the link can serve as shorthand for stuff I used to have to type out in talkpages but even that's getting tedious now.--RosicrucianTalk 06:38, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
 * That Skullgrin guy cheeses me off. He keeps updating the Canadian voice actors with new photos, but absolutely refuses to respond to his talk page or provide the requested source and copyright information. --FFN 16:44, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I've plopped down   as a first draft. Feel free to tweak or reword. I'm not married to the image, as I just grabbed an existing one. I don't have image editing tools here at work so I can't get a better one until I get home.--RosicrucianTalk 17:47, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Unreleased toys page?
Do we have a page that lists toys that were canceled and thus never released? If not should I start one? I would love to start an article.Dead Metal 13:29, 25 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Well, there's only the category page by far. -- TX55   TALK  16:11, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
 * As a wiki, we're not big on lists, but this sounds like one of the more useful ones to have. I'd say go for it. -Derik 16:27, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I'll start as soon as possible!Dead Metal 17:56, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Character infobox
Okay, I know that people have had some problems with the infobox concept, but I'd like to be heard out first. I'm working an a template for character infobox's here, but I'm still trying to iron the kinks out. Now, instead of actually putting numbers from the teh specs on courage, intl, etc, I instead propose a small, written discription based on their fictional appearances. For example


 * Name: Skywarp
 * Race: Cybertronian
 * Homeworld: Cybertron
 * Gender: Male.
 * Courage: Being able to fly has its advantages.
 * Intelligence: Worthless without supervision.
 * Firepower: Bombs and lasers.
 * Special power: Teleportation
 * Rank: Air Warrior/practical joker
 * Actor: Frank Welker

Or say G1 Arcee


 * Name: Arcee
 * Race: Cybertronian.
 * Homeworld: Cybertron.
 * Genger: Female, and the only one Furman will use.
 * Courage: Wears pink on the battle field.
 * Intelligence: Can keep Hot Rod and Springer at bay.
 * Firepower: Pair of blasters, but her aim needs work.
 * Special power:
 * Rank: Gunner, but she's really just Daniel's babysitter.
 * Actor: Susan Blu

As I said, I'm still working out the kinks. But for now, any thoughts? -- SFH 20:28, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Best avoided. --M Sipher 20:39, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, it really seems like it would open the floodgates for a lot of non-informative jokes without much actual information. -- Repowers 05:04, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, since I still can't get the template to work, I suppose it's a moot point. -- SFH 06:05, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Link Magic
For unknown reasons, performing edits with Link Magic Optimus Prime (G1) appears ot be 'flattening' the results when saved to Optimus Prime. This is, it goes without saying, undesirable in that it makes the pages hard to to edit again later. I'm looking into it. -Derik 04:54, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
 * ...wait, has it always worked that way? That fucking obnoxious to maintain.
 * Damnit, I remember it working the other way. I wonder if I fell into a parallel universe where Wiki markup is different?  Is Bush good here?  Great, now I'm gonna have to find a guru to realign my chakras and send me home... I had much better things to do this summer than travel to massively parallel alternate dimensions. -Derik 05:35, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Custom toys?
Do you think we should start a article, or articles about Custom toys, Garage kits and third party upgrade sets? You know like the Jizai toys, the Cyber fembots, the HTM-01 Bumblebee and those TFClub upgrade stuff, like the Classics UM armor. I think we should have one, but I think I should ask before I once again start a disastrous think like my first article..Dead Metal 12:21, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
 * No. Unless it's official licensed Hasbro/Takara product, it's got no place here.  -hx 12:50, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
 * No. --M Sipher 13:27, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
 * No, definitely. -- TX55   TALK  14:12, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
 * OK, but doesn't Jizai toys have some kind of license from Takara that lets them sell theyre stuff exclusively at Wonderfest? At least that's what I believe I've read as they said they couldn't attend the last one.Dead Metal 16:26, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Kitbash is probably the most you can do. -- SFH 18:28, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
 * We should investigate the One Day License TakaraTomy (and other license holders in Japan) grant to small 'garage kit' makers to sell their wares at Japanese conventions. We should at least acknowledge it. --FFN 12:41, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I could live with that - maybe give One Day License its own entry and give some examples of popular customs sold under it (the Jizaitoys sets come to mind... wasn't that fan-made fusion cannon for AM Megatron done the same way?) -hx 13:09, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Humor message template
I've been thinking: Isn't it time that we make a message that informs people that humor is allowed on this wiki? I mean, we've got the whole THE FUNNY STAYS at the top of the main page talk, but maybe we need a more proactive one. As for transformer quotes, I bet something from Random Blitzwing would suffice. -- SFH 18:28, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I concur. Though I think we should consider how Memory Alpha and other major wikis usually copy-paste a welcome message with all relevant policy links, rules and guidelines for newcomer registered members. Might be too much work, though, as we don't have a 24 hour rotating staff. --FFN 12:41, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
 * You know, I think that a welcome template would be a good idea. That's pretty much all I do on Wookieepedia these days. I could start working on one. -- SFH 16:00, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

UK G1 covers and cover varaints and stuff
Some of you may have realised that I have uploaded some UK G1 covers. But the nature of how the UK stories are depicted om Teletraan 1 is one article per story, as opposed to one article per issue. In essence this means that only one cover per story can be uploaded.

But shouldn't there be a system where every cover can be catalogued here? Should there a "Covers" section? In the case of Time Wars and Space Pirates we have a half-dozen of covers to chose from, all good, but only space for one.

And on a similar vein, shouldn't there be a section for UK covers for the US stories. For the most part the US covers were inferior, hence the UK havng to draw up new ones in the first place. Using my "covers" idea from above, it could be "UK covers" section. What does everyone think?

(And while I'm on it, maybe a variant covers section for the more modern issues? Mind you, as I type this, I have no idea whether such a thing is actually being done). Drmick 14:54, 2 June 2008 (UTC)


 * A system where every cover can be catalogued seems to be a fascinated idea! -- TX55   TALK  16:18, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Yea it would be, and I would be able to help, since I have lots of the new idw covers, but would it be bad if they were signed, I man can we use signed covers for that, or would those covers be taken down?Dead Metal 16:32, 2 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Man, I'm so used to having my edits undone I thought TX55 was being sarcastic. I have every UK G1 page scanned on my hard drive, inc the covers.  Although, in fairness, there are sites out there with better scans. Drmick 16:43, 2 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Wow wow, wait a minute. I wasn't being sarcastic, really. I really think we should have a thing like this as a single article page as some sort of catalog page(Marvel UK Cover Gallery, maybe?). But it would be take a little work. -- TX55   TALK  17:06, 2 June 2008 (UTC)


 * The problem with this is the page would be huge. There were 332 (or so) UK issues, Plus, many UK issues had two stories (heck, one issue had three stories: A UK story, a US story and part of the Heasmasters mini-series) --FortMax 17:53, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

This problem is not unique to the UK comics. Lots of recent books from IDW and Dreamwave have multiple covers. We just put 'em in at the bottom. See Dreamwave Armada issue 1 for a random example. -- Repowers 17:33, 2 June 2008 (UTC)


 * "...have multiple covers. We just put 'em in at the bottom". Ok, we could start doing that, but the logic centre in my brain says each UK issue should have it's own cover, rather than putting all the covers (for Time Wars for example) at the bottom of that article. Drmick 19:51, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
 * That's an artifact of the the UK stuff being storyline articles instead of issue articles. I think each issue should have it's own page (for vital statistics and image credit linking, if nothing else) but at the moment those pages would be baren of info, unless you also want to rewrite all the summaries.
 * Maybe a "This multipart storyline has a detailed synopsis at ARTICLENAME" on the individual pages as a temporary make-do? -Derik 20:05, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I think I'd rather see one gigantic list page, with a table of contents for each page, rather than 332 individual articles each with a minimum of information, which would also require a second click-through to get to the actual story info. That info should be on the wiki somewhere.... but considering how hacked apart the UK stories were, I dislike the idea of making story pages subordinate to issue pages. -- Repowers 20:18, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Child pages that are just the technical details? Time Wars/Marvel UK issue 199 -Derik 01:11, 3 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Serious question then - why do we have (e.g.) Stormbringer issue 1 (etc) as the main articles rather than everything at Stormbringer? Surely we should be consistent in having either everything sorted by issue, or everything sorted by story rather than some hodgepodge? - SanityOrMadness 12:08, 3 June 2008 (UTC)


 * 'Cause the UK stories are uniquely chopped up. Stormbringer #1 is written to have an opening, a middle and a conclusion.  UK stories share issues with other stories (most of which are already presented as single stories in the US issues), and are sometimes cut off in mid-sentence.  Story summaries of individual UK issues wouldn't make much sense, and would be ridiculously short.    in short, the UK comics are treated uniquely because they are a unique case. -- Repowers 12:15, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Right, now, ladies. Enough yapping. I'm not proposing all the UK issues get their own articles, for all the reasons above. I need a system whereby they get archived correctly though. To use the mantra "don't come to me with problems, come to me with solutions" I propose that all the UK covers get stuck into their respective articles (and be appropriately named and wikilinked in the 1st place). What I need you girls to do, is to decide the format by which they go ino those articles (top, bottom, sideways, collaged, separate section etc) Drmick 18:32, 3 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I think top and sideways will be too messy - for any three part or longer story there'll be so many covers running down the side that they'll hit images in the synopsis et al. A special gallery at the bottom may be best.


 * Also what are people's thoughts on always including the Collected Comics covers? There's a mix of reusing a cover from one of the issues reprinted in it (1, 2, 7, 13-15, 17-19, Autumn 92, Easter 93, Summer 93), using a cover from another issue not reprinted in it (3, 16, Summer 92, Winter 93, Holiday 94, Summer 94, Autumn 94) and brand new covers (4, 5, 6, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12). Timrollpickering 00:03, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Disambiguation images?
Dunno if this has been brought up before, but would having thumbnail images on the disambiguation pages be a worthwhile thing? It'd take forever to carry out, of course, but it's something that wouldn't require any new image files (just reuse character page images) and would add a nice visual component to the selection on disambig pages. -- Repowers 17:36, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I saw something like this on the Bumblebee (disambiguation) page and thought it looked like a neat concept. The only problems I can think of would be using images for larger articles (with 6+ redirects) and people with slower internet connections. --Professor Icepick 17:43, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
 * One big problem is that Transformers tend to change bodies every so often, especially Primes and Megatrons. Which body would you show? Armada Megatron looks nothing like Energon Megatron who looks nothing like Cybertron Megatron, and G2 Megatron has more in common visually with Armada Megatron (both transform into green and purple tanks) than he does his own G1 form. --FortMax 18:00, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
 * The Prime page wouldn't gain much by it- all red stuff. Still, I like the idea in concept... it might be worth exploring if it can be done in a compact manner that complements the text descriptions.  (And really, some of our disambig pages are getting ridiculously long, we're gonna need a synthesize a new high-density format sooner or later) -Derik 20:08, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
 * In most cases, the image should probably just be the main image from the character's page. Simple solution... assuming they can be seen at small size. Test page at user:repowers/Sandbox3. -- Repowers 20:13, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
 * At the very least, you need dividing lines/separating boxes. Plus, there's a shit-ton of empty whitespace there, which looks awful. There's probably some ways to fill that vertical space by itemizing the contents of the original sentences...
 * Bumblebee
 * Apperance year: 1984
 * Origin: Generation 1 continuity family
 * Or someshit. Could probably fill horizontal by making it a 2-character-wide table. (I just really hate large expanses of blank space.) --M Sipher 20:47, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I like that. I was thinking about disambig-images myself a while back, and the whitespace issue was also my reservation.  A lot of the boilerplate you're introducing could be automated via a template, so it wouldn't be too tedious.  For what it's worth, though, I still think the date-template goes a long way toward making the long lists palatable, and I don't see the need for images as particularly urgent. - Jackpot 00:02, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
 * If you're doign first appearance, can I also suggest last appearance? It tells you a lot if a character was active from 1987-1989 as opposed to 1982-1997.  Or 1984-Ongoing.
 * Prowl is the prime example of why the date-template isn't... necessarily viable. It's long, and it'd have to stop and read 'em all.  I'd be nice to be able to see- "Oh hey, RiD Prowl-- CLICK!"  I actually have some thoughts on the matter... but I think I'll wait for Rob's design to evolve one or two iterations first- I think it's going somewhere useful. -Derik 00:32, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
 * "Last appearance" would mean near-constant updating of a fuckton of disambig pages. Characters can come back any time. --M Sipher 01:33, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I just made two test pages. I prefer the first one, but it would be lots of blank space for several pages. But I hate putting non-original character in the middle.
 * ps. I think 1st appearance would be better. -- TX55   TALK </SUP> 01:38, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I prefer how we currently have a sentence-ish description of who each version is, which I think would fit better in Rob's mock-up (with Siph's additions). And, yeah, thirded on the no-last-appearance. - Jackpot 01:58, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

I took a crack at it here.--RosicrucianTalk 02:32, 3 June 2008 (UTC)--RosicrucianTalk 02:32, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

I kinda like the image I put up at Sunstorm (disambiguation)... --ItsWalky 02:37, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

I think disambiguation pages are just fine the way they are now, and any change that involves adding images should be done with a minimal impact on the current format. --KilMichaelMcC 04:22, 3 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Ooh, Kil's not gonna like my pass on the idea at all... -Derik 05:06, 3 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I like Walky's image too... but as more Sunstorms pile up, I fear that group shots liek that aren't practical to maintain. (That said, I want someone to take a picture of all the Roller toys together.  It would be awesome.)
 * How many different Sunstorms do we expect to pile up? There's still only four, despite how many toys they've gotten.  If they make 30 more G1 Sunstorms, that doesn't change the image.  If they add one to, say, Animated, we'd have to update the image, but until then...  --ItsWalky 12:37, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Okay, I did pass at a picture disambig template here. OMGWTFLOL, it's madness? Aye, but there be a method to it... this layout uses a CSS change to accomplish crimes of passion not possible with simple inline CSS. (This is how we did our messageboxes originally.) So to see what it's SUPPOSED to look like... go to my Wikia CSS file, copy the code there, and save it to your own. (Or, just look at the screenshot, but that's much less exciting.)

The Picture disambigs are 300 pixels wide- but that's with full-size text. I figure you could scrunch. They display in as many columns as can fit on the user's page (like the picture gallery here) to maximize the use of the page.

This is a proof-of-concept build- to be sure it could be done. If carried through to completion, it'd allow you to assign multiple faction symbols, one or none continuity logos for the bottom, (both of which would be faded back for legibility.) Box borders might used to visually code prominence- a major characters with 100 + appearances gets a black border, normal characters a gray one, and guys that barely exist a light gray one. Cosmos will probably have a single year '2008,' while Obsidian would be 1999-2007 and Bumblebee might be 1984-ongoing. Lots of information presented succinctly. Actual colors, proportions etc... would be subject to change.

Oh, and I think there's room for a brief italic comment or note at the bottom of the box.-Derik 05:06, 3 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Yeaaaahhh.... I'm going to have to stick with "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." The current format for disambig pages is fine, and if we want to pretty them up a bit with some images, that'd be fine too, but I don't think it's necessary to radically overhaul them. --KilMichaelMcC 05:29, 3 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Energon (disambiguation)? -Derik 05:54, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Is that a question? Are you suggesting there's a problem with that particular page? Because I think it's fine. --KilMichaelMcC 06:25, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, this is quickly approaching "skip it" levels. The majority of disambig pages really aren't that big or complicated, and the existing text, most notably the franchise they came from, should be more than enough. And really, would pages like Sam (disambiguation) really gain anything from any of the proposed new formats? Because they'd LOSE a lot more... --M Sipher 13:18, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Refinement #1. Same place, still requires CSS change. (It might be possible to do it without a CSS change, but the code becomes ungodly ugly.) Screenshot. Responses appreciated. -Derik 04:37, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
 * That's..... that's getting somewhere. I'd say ditch the "Transformers" logos (which are redundant and pull the eye confusingly), remove the "Appears:" (also redundant clutter) and last-appearance dates (personal taste), and we're just about there.  Edit: Also, I'd like to see the explanatory sentence-fragments worked into the resulting whitespace.  I think it's still a very good idea to have the brief description (name of alt-mode, significant subgroup, anything else that might be necessary to distinguish the character from those around it) because that sort of thing is rarely conveyed by a robot-mode pic if you don't recognize it at first sight. - Jackpot 05:22, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, you can put in a text note (it's on the Universe Micromaster.) -Derik 05:28, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, but your screencap barely shows that. What I'm getting at is, I'd like to see what it would actually look like if all of the boxes retained the information currently in their descriptions.  To see if it's too much text, if it can flow well the way it currently does, if it all ends up seeming redundant, whatever.  It's the sort of thing I'd make my own Sandbox for, but I don't have the skillz.  And I think you've made something so close to my ideal format, I'd love it if you humored me. - Jackpot 05:35, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
 * V3 I think the copy could be cut down- I removed the continuity since it was in the text, but in reality I think you'd swap that out.  Realistically this would be their most common altmode and anythign important about them.  (Oops, and I muffed up animated!Prowl's, oh well) -Derik 06:13, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Thank you, sir. I'm diggin' it.  And I agree that if we can pull bits out of the text and put them elsewhere in the layout, all the better.  For instance, you don't even need to mention the allegiance as long as the symbols are up in the corner.  And, if I were doing it, I'd make the second line "[date] [continuity]", with no "range" and no last appearance (as I agree with Siph on that count).  With all the room being saved, maybe even have an extra line either above or below it for alt-mode.  Also, I still think the TF-logos need to go.
 * At any rate, I'm off to bed, but I thank you again for humoring me. Take my suggestions or not; I think what you're making is pretty and promising.
 * - Jackpot 06:24, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I still think this is all entirely unnecessary and find the current format entirely sufficient. --KilMichaelMcC 05:39, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
 * There's been grumbling for awhile about finding a better way of diaplaying information specific to really high-density disambigs. Nothing needs to be decided now, but it's a useful discussion to have.  (And yeah, that means that you saying you don't think it's necessary is useful-- the amount of benefit derived from any new layout would have to offset the negative karma is it being different, and thus less consistent.)
 * I'd just like to point out that TM2 Prowl shows up in "Withered Hope"... and it's cameos like that that is the reason I'm against "range". It's deceiving as well, as TM2 Prowl was NOT "active" for ten years. He had a toy for one, then did nothing anywhere for nine... and then barely did anything again. --M Sipher 13:35, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, and late G1 guys like Action Masters who didn't make fiction appearances until the modern comics could end up listed as "1989-2008" or some such, as if they were being used the entire time. That wouldn't really make a lot of sense. While I still oppose this whole idea, if changes are made the years listings should be dropped entirely. --KilMichaelMcC 01:27, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Well- first appearance year would be kept, right? We use that on long disambigs already. -Derik 01:52, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

WOWWiki?
Can anyone tell me why I have a message bar on the top of every page from the WOWWiki that I can't get rid of, even though I've never been there before? --Xaaron 03:13, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I've got that too. It's quite annoying. I didn't even have any idea what GuildWiki was about. --KilMichaelMcC 06:12, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
 * They just merged their database, and clearly things are Fucked Up. This far I have gotten unhelpful advice that will clearly not solve the problem. -Derik 06:44, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
 * It got so annoying to me that I hid all user messages. It's just visually coded too prominently, i can't not read it each tiem the page loads, and it's incredibly obnoxious.
 * http://www.wikia.com/wiki/User:Derik/global.css .usermessage{display:none;}
 * Note: This should be considered a short-term solution until Wikia fixes things, because it stops you from receiving necessary messages too. I think i could rig it globally so the message notice would only show up if you have messages on this wimi... but I'd need an Admin's help, and we'd probably only do that if Wikia doesn't fix the problem soonish. -Derik 09:16, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Dumb question, probably
I remember there being transformers that could combine together to make one big kick-ass transformer. Did I imagine this? If it is true, do they still make them? Could I obtain a set? Thanks, Stimmlerjohnson 03:16, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
 * See Combiner. They do occasionally still make them, or rerelease old ones.--RosicrucianTalk 03:22, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Thank you, that is exactly what I needed to know.Stimmlerjohnson 16:22, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Ads
so, it looks like Wikia is changing the way the wikis look a bit, and one of the things that looks potentially harmful to our wiki is advertisements in the top right OF THE ARTICLES, pushing down the main image. For Characters and stuff, it is gonna suck having the pic that shows us what character we are looking at needs to be scrolled down too. I don't suppose we have a choice in the matter, so what are we gonna do to avoid our articles looking bad? i'm gonna miss the way the wiki looks now, its hot. :(--Skyglide 00:13, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Wow,. And it comes just a month after the last hideous change, so I figure by fall this place will look crappier thna About.com. Why the hell have I been giving Wikia free content if they're going to present it like this? How much money can they need? And how can they really think this will keep ad revenue sustainably high when it's guarandamnteed to drive people away? Chip 00:52, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Hey, Wikia guys, please try a little harder and find a place to put new OMG PRECIOUS ads other than inside the damn articles themselves.--Thylacine 2000 01:53, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Okay, I just opened the Nova Prime page, and was greeted by a John McCain campaign banner between the title and the disamgs. This gotta go. --Xaaron 11:15, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Firefox.
 * Adblock Plus.
 * ("This has got to go" would be a pretty decent McCain campaign slogan if he hadn't gotten into bed witht he greepy people he crusaded against.) -Derik 11:17, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

While seconding what Derik just typed, the following code, added to http://www.wikia.com/wiki/User:YOURUSERNAME/global.css (replacing YOURUSERNAME with your login name here - you can log in there with the same username) appears to zap all the ads on Wikia regardless of browser. For now, at least - SanityOrMadness 15:33, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

I actually thought the last change was pretty nice (well, we made it the best it could be with the colors and that banging name thing with the 'shopped animated logo.). but this new one makes me want to drink bleach. It looks terrible. Ads IN the articles? what has this world come too!? damn you wikia! why hath thou forsaken us!?!?!?--Skyglide 19:40, 17 June 2008 (UTC)


 * 1) adSpace0 {display:none !important}
 * 2) adSpace1 {display:none !important}
 * 3) adSpace2 {display:none !important}
 * 4) adSpace3 {display:none !important}
 * 5) adSpace4 {display:none !important}
 * 6) adSpace5 {display:none !important}
 * 7) adSpace6 {display:none !important}
 * 8) adSpace7 {display:none !important}
 * 9) adSpace8 {display:none !important}
 * 10) adSpace9 {display:none !important}
 * 11) adSpace10 {display:none !important}
 * 12) adSpace11 {display:none !important}
 * 13) adSpace12 {display:none !important}
 * 14) adSpace13 {display:none !important}
 * 15) adSpace14 {display:none !important}
 * 16) adSpace15 {display:none !important}
 * 17) adSpace16 {display:none !important}
 * 18) adSpace17 {display:none !important}
 * 19) adSpace18 {display:none !important}
 * 20) adSpace19 {display:none !important}
 * 21) adSpace20 {display:none !important}

.widget WidgetAdvertiser {display:none !important} .WidgetAdvertiser {display:none !important}

ARGH. How the hell am I supposed to get rid of these fucking ads in the articles? Galvanisation 11:06, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
 * You see that big block starting #adSpace0? Add that to User:Galvanisation/monaco.css (or, if you visit other Wikia wikis, adding it to http://www.wikia.com/wiki/User:Galvanisation/global.css should take care of them cross-Wikia - anyone else, substitute your own username for Galvanisation, obviously).
 * Firefox/AdBlock is another alternative. - SanityOrMadness 11:38, 18 June 2008 (UTC)


 * "You see that big block starting #adSpace0?". Sweet!  Excellent work guys. Drmick 09:52, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

I just talk to a staff ask if the damn ads could become hideable by clicking on a "x" mark on it. She say she will take the advise to other staff in the next meeting this weekend. Wish us luck. -- TX55   TALK </SUP> 12:28, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Character Main Images, MTMTE, TF: Universe, boxart and stuff
Some of you may know I've been uploading UK G1 covers, after a bit of debate {see above} as to how these should be presented. One of the biggest sources of debate I see on the character pages is on the choice of main image. When I first started I was told that only one main image is picked. I have yet to determine the logic as to how the choice is made between the various images. I assumed it was all round quality. However the articles on Grimlock, Bludgeon and Springer prove that the (non-controversial?) humour can the main deciding factor.

The UK G1 covers have been put into galleries at the bottom of the UK story pages. Is there any reason a similar structure could not be adopted for the profile images? As I understand it the following profile images are out there: Am I missing any?
 * Box art (it rules! We need a book of them, dammit Hasbro/Takara, wall scroll will not suffice!)
 * MTMTE (some are excellent, some defecacious)
 * Character models/Marvel Universe Images
 * Some Japanese character models from later series

As well, a cover gallery could be included to show all the covers each character has graced, these images mostly already exist on the wiki. It might too big a gallery for Prime and Megs, but it could be useful for some. I mean Windsweeper got a whole (admittedly crap) UK G1 cover for himself.

With this whole new ad/skin it might be a useful way to collect the main images. Thoughts? Drmick 12:26, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Guys it would have nice to been told "No" before I spent maybe an hour scanning and editing MTMTE art. I mean the "Combiner dumb question" and the "Unicron trilogy designs" questions gained a response, yet a question about wiki policy (which is, like, what the community portal is for) did not.  "Dumb stubbies"...... Drmick 10:58, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah sorry, but at the moment the I would guess the entire staff and the major contributors (except myself) are discussing the problems Wikia's new changes have made and debating if we should move or not. And besides, people's talk page questions get ignored all the time. --FFN 11:40, 21 June 2008 (UTC)


 * If you had enough presence of mind to ask if people wanted such a collection of images in the first place, you only have yourself to blame if you went ahead and did all the work for it before you got a response. --Xaaron 14:01, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Additionally, scanning every single MTMTE image is, well, illegal. It's no better than scanning every single page of a comic and putting it up here.  --ItsWalky 14:07, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Userpage limits
Can we start making some hardline limits on userpage fluff? This isn't fucking MySpace. One, maybe two images and that's it. Limited text (with limited exceptions made if people really want to start listing big contributions they've done). I'm frankly getting sick of the Recent Changes page getting cluttered with COMPLETELY usless mass vanity-edits. --M Sipher 14:04, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
 * We definately need to lay down the law. I've seen this on Wookieepedia. People who are here to edit their userpages are wasting our time. -- SFH 19:33, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Very yes to everything. The content not related to the Wiki itself should be minimal; nobody here particularly cares for your personal style, information, or opinions that are irrelevant to the Wiki. —Interrobang 04:02, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I thought I remembered from signing up that we actually have a thing saying you only get to upload one userpic for yourself. (Or is this about the guys who just play with existing wiki pages on their userpage? -Derik 04:43, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Some examples of the worst offenders would be helpful in this argument. When I first found this wiki, like most, I waded in with little regard for the rules.  I was curtailed, but still was able to get some stuff of my chest with the use of Userpage and sandboxes.  My userpage has some stuff but it is specifically TF related.


 * On a similar vein, I notice that the big hitters here seem to be Derik, FFN, ITswalky etc. I have often looked at those users pages in the hope that I can get a feel for which type of fan they are (e.g predominantly a fan of toy/comic/cartoon or G1/Japanese/Beast Wars or Marvel/DW/IDW etc etc).  No such information exists, but I think it would be useful.  And oddly, M Siphers page is essentially blank, but his discussion page is not.  In theory, a suitable userpage might pre-empt a lot of unnecessary discussion.  Personally, I ended up having a discussion about my homage sandbox in 3 different places.  Drmick 10:31, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
 * My userpage tells you I am the type of user not the be emulated, since I am TT1's most banned active contributer!
 * In all seriousness, you raise a legitimate point. My userpage is a collection of stuff useful to me as I edit pages.  We've rejected character box templates, but I think it might be worthwhile to look at a template to create a 'nutshell' summary for users, for the very reasons you say. -Derik 13:40, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I think it would be useful for the staff members to identify themselves as such on their user pages if they haven't already done so. --FFN 16:18, 22 June 2008 (UTC)