Talk:Brawl (Tyran)/707.04 Delta

Not Megatron comment
what inspired that? USER:GWolf
 * Many people on various boards who can't get over the fact that movie Megs is neither a gun nor a tank. --FFN 16:20, 12 April 2007 (UTC)


 * More specifically, the ones who are so incapable of getting over it that they form elaborate conspiracy theories about how Megatron will get a tank altmode during the movie and Hasbro decided to call the corresponding toy "Brawl" to keep it a surprise. --Andrusi 03:29, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
 * those were the days, man. Almost makes me think a "pre-release theories" section on the movie page wouldn't be all that out out of place. Fits right in there with the theory that the human cast list was actually a secret robot voice actor list, with clever codenames like "Epps" to put people off the trail that he's obviously Jazz.--Carrion 02:03, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Brawl could have easily been named Overkill, if you ask me. His toy has an amount of weapons that border on goofy: His spring loaded cannon on his right arm, the fact that it can swivel 180 to reveal a more accurate to his design Gatling Gun molding, his behind the back secondary guns, his shoulder mounted missile launchers, his twin claw, AND the anti-personal cannon molded onto the twin claw's base. Sheeeeeesh. --Terrocon Blot 19:30, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Devastator
apparently, when they screened the movie in australia, little thing became apparent. His name's Devestator?

Opened, or screened? Because if it was a pre-screening, it may have been a rough cut of the movie-- several decepticons' names were changes later in production, and Devastator was an early name for Brawl.

You can count on this being corrected for the actual film release. Roberto Orci has commented on it. --KilMichaelMcC 04:20, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

They called it both a special screening event and a premiere. We rock. --FFN 08:15, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Hey I just saw the movie on June 29th in a sneak preview in columbus ohio and they called him Devastator. And it seemed like scenes were missing from the movie


 * I'm a little confused as to why "Devastator" isn't noted as a mistaken when the only place it appears is a single subtitle line in the actual movie whilst "Brawl" appears on... everything else ever.  I mean, a Michael Bay forced mistake is still a mistake.--MCRG 03:52, 4 July 2007 (UTC)


 * "Forced mistake"? If he intended to call the tank Devastator and he called it Devastator, I'm not seeing the mistake. It's clearly different from every other appearance, but unless we're going to make a big deal about how purple cartoon Rumble is a mistake, there's no reason to make it sound like someone didn't know what his name was. "Brawl" is clearly the most parsimonious name for the page, but that doesn't change the fact that his name is Devastator in the movie. -67.149.204.113 04:44, 4 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Heh, until the DVD release. I don't see Hasbro sitting by on that one when they've got Brawl stamped on all the merchandise.--MCRG 04:46, 4 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Brawl is the better name, they should save devastator for the sequel.

The cinema in Minnesota I just saw the movie at had the 'Devastator' cut. -Derik 01:31, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Wait, what do you mean? Do you mean "cut" as in "the name Devastator was removed" or "cut" as in "the cut of the film that has Devastator," which would be the same as what everyone else has already seen? --KilMichaelMcC 01:40, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
 * The version where he's called Devastator. ...is there no version where he's called Brawl like the said or something?  Now you've confused me. -Derik 01:43, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Nope. It's Devastator in every version.


 * Of course, it's still wrong. But there is no cut that says Brawl. --Suki Brits 01:49, 5 July 2007 (UTC)


 * It says "Brawl" in the credits, though. And as MCRG said, with "Brawl" on all the packaging I'm sure it'll be changed in time for the DVD release.  - Dark T Zeratul 02:40, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

So, uh, twice now people have removed the "Brawl (here called "Devastator")" bit from the movie summary with no explanation at all. I think that phrasing is important for the sake of clarification. Otherwise there's no real clear reason for him to be referred to as Devastator in the article as it's never actually stated before there that the name Devastator appears in the movie. Can somebody please justify this? --Steve-o 21:44, 10 July 2007 (UTC)


 * It was apparently LV that removed it. After it was put back today, he asked if he was alone in thinking it should be removed.  I said it was a little weird to suddenly call the character Devastator with no explanation, and he seemed to give up immediately.  I don't recall him actually justifying it, but I think it'd be easiest for you to ask. /:) --Sntint 03:41, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Regarding current edit: I don't think we should specifically denounce one name over the other, especially in the movie fiction section. Would the "Brawl (here called "Devastator")" thing work for the first mention, then just use pronouns for the rest of this specific section? Atomic spaceman 21:15, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't think it's really denouncing- he was originally named Devastator, but his name was later changed to Brawl, it just didn't get fixed int he movie.
 * Somehow I feel like that sounds less than, say, Jetfire begin called Skyfire int he Sunbow Cartoon. (I may change my tune if it's not fixed on the DVD) -Derik 22:08, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

For the film's fiction subsection I have changed his name to Devastator. It's the only name he is given in that story, and the director of the film has apparently said he prefers that name. To me, that makes it his name. He simply has a different name in the film than in all his other appearances. Further: there is still a mention in the trivia that he is credited as Brawl. However, the last time I saw the movie with LV and Walky, they both scanned the voice credits (I was looking elsewhere) and didn't see him credited at all, under either name. Can any editors personally attest to have seen the credit with their own eyes, or are we just repeating Some Guy's claim that it's there? --Steve-o 22:35, 12 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Old edit of mine from early June for the Sydney June 12th premiere, where the voice actors were finally revealed. IIRC it was posted by one of the people attending and I forgot to edit it out, and I didn't bother hanging around to watch the voice credits myself. Btw, do the Decepticons EVER refer to Sam as anything other than Ladiesman217? That's why I refer to him as such in all the Decepticon writeups I've done. --FFN 23:18, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

DVD
Well, the DVD has been released in some places already, clips are flooding YouTube. So, I just wanna take the time to ask this question. Does he still call himself Devastator in the DVD release? -- SFH 05:57, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
 * According to a thread on the official TF movie forum, yes. --FFN 08:19, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Image
Does anyone have an actual image of Brawl in robot mode? -- SFH 16:40, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
 * No, he never appeared in any promotional materials to my knowledge, and is BARELY seen in only some of the tv spots. The first time we saw his movie design (and not just his toy) was that leaked concept design sheet at TFW2005. --FFN 16:44, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
 * He shows up in various heavily illustrated material, but in group shots. Let me think...He's in the movie comic adaptation, and various storybooks.  Meet The Decepticons (group shot), Movie Storybook (likely same), and so forth.  If you want a render, it seems unlikely.
 * Doublechecked various books. Seems like the best image of Brawl we'll get is his first appearance in bot mode from the Movie adapation comic.  Beyond that, he's either lost in crowds, or not drawn well.  Or cropped badly.  --Terrocon Blot 21:25, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
 * The game guide has a pretty large promo render of Brawl. There are a couple screen shots clipping him, but I'll see what I can do. --M Sipher 21:29, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
 * So now that Brawl's gotten a released to the public concept art, we gonna ditch the CG one from the game, or keep using him? --Terrocon Blot 01:14, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
 * There is? --FFN 03:54, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Actually, there are better picture of this guy. They can be found on Ben Procter's website. (The one with all the movie designs.) Crosshairs-1 11:55, 2 February 2008 (UTC)Crosshairs-1

Devastator and Michael Bay
"When queried, director Michael Bay said he had always preferred Devastator and that it is not a mistake."

I'd like to see a source for this. 'Cuz for everyone who brings this up, there's someone who will claim that Bay confirmed it as an error that will get fixed for the DVD. So unless someone can cite a source, I'm inclined to call this (as well as the "fixed for the DVD" version) a "fan rumor".

Oh, and "I seem to recall" or "I think I read somewhere" is not a source.--Nevermore 22:47, 29 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Then fix it yourself. --FFN 03:17, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, I can find it I think. Also, anyone remember his "If I wanna paint my house green" thing over flmaes and Prime s

Quote
If someone can SOURCE that "stupid simple" quote, I'd rather use that. --M Sipher 03:03, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Better image?
His main image is a stupid "Cyber Slammer" because....? LordHigher,MoreAnnoyingStarscream 16:38, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Because it's so out of character for a monster like Brawl to look this cute. --Detour 16:45, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Besides, they never released a single publicity image of him. --FFN 08:38, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I swapped the Cyber Slammer image with the concept art pic at the bottom of the article. -- Dark T Zeratul 09:44, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, I guess you suck, then. -LV 13:54, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
 * What the hell? It's concept art. Cyber Slammer art is the only official art of him on this page. I'm changing it back. --FFN 15:03, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
 * More importantly, the Cyber Slammer picture is hilarious. --Steve-o 01:39, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

I think it's much better now!Maybe.--Telex 02:01, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
 * It wasn't. —Interrobang 02:06, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

Now?--Telex 02:15, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
 * NO --FortMax 02:25, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

How Bow Now?-Telex 02:39, 3 March 2008 (UTC) I changed the image to a video game one. I would have used the concept one, but I can't find anywhere. '''DO NOT CHANGE IT BACK. I WILL BAN YOU WHO CHANGES IT BACK.''' Read my argument against the Cyber Slammers image on my user page. G1MA 00:51, 18 April 2008 (UTC)G1MA
 * That's...a bad way to get people on your side. -- SFH 00:56, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Better Image II: The Serious Discussion
May I ask why we don't use the video game image as his main image? It's a good, full body image, we use a game image as Tidal Wave's main image, and we have the Cyber Slammer image on the package art page making the same joke. So seriously, why not? -- SFH 02:08, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
 * 1) Because the image is awesome.
 * 2) I don't see the same joke, sir.
 * 3) It should be obvious after all this that you're outnumbered on the issue. Why belabor it?  --ItsWalky 02:27, 18 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm not gonna make a fuss over it, but -- considering the huge stink we make for some characters over how such-and-such picture doesn't have "the right body", often haggling over some minor differences that nobody's gonna even notice, it's a little baffling to me how this pic has stayed up as the main image. FUNNY > information? -- Repowers 16:36, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Because I believe only four things, Walky:
 * 1) The Autobots will rule Cybertron.
 * 2) Female Transformers work better if you don't over exert yourself trying to explain them.
 * 3) Megatron is better as a tank. It's more mobile than the gun, having him as a flier makes Starscream that much more useless, and it gives the fusion cannon a role in alt-mode.
 * 4) And Brawl will finally have a real main image! -- SFH 15:49, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Regarding that one guy who made those three arguments:


 * 1)It is not awesome.
 * 2)The joke is there, sir.
 * 3)Like I care.

I'd change the image, but I can't find the concept art. G1MA 19:45, 6 May 2008 (UTC)G1MA


 * Dude, ItsWalky is one of the administrators of this Wiki. As for the concept art, I believe I asked for it to be deleted, because troublemakers kept moving it up as the main pic in defiance of this wiki's regular members and administrative staff. --FFN 20:15, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

OK, then we're in trouble. If an immature moron who thinks putting those dumb images up there are funny is an administrator, then this wiki is doomed G1MA 23:57, 8 May 2008 (UTC)G1MA
 * So essentially, you're saying that this Wiki is Ruined FOREVER? --Detour 00:09, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I would just like to point out the hillarity of someone pointing out that someone is being immature on a wiki devoted to cartoons and children's toys. Just throwing that out there. - Semysane 00:18, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Okay, now that the guy has been banned, can we please get back to the real discussion? Will someone give me a legitimate reason as to why we cannont use Brawl's game image as his main image? As Repowers said, information is supposed to be more important than humor. If someone can just give me a decent answer (one that does not include use of inappropriate language, doubts about my masculinity, threats of administrative retaliation, insinuations about my intelligence, or insults directed at members of my family), I'll drop it. -- SFH 00:24, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * How is Brawl's packaging art not informative? --ItsWalky 00:27, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * It's the package art from his Cyber Slammer toy, which looks nothing like any of the other toys OR his appearance in the movie and comics. People coming to the page not already   knowing about the character could be confused or even put off by it. - Semysane 00:42, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * As I recall, the reasoning behind using this image was basically "Brawl is supposed to be such a hulking destructive monster, therefore it's ironically funny to use his cutest possible toy." I think a major problem with that is that what this character is "supposed to be" really doesn't exist, since he's a nobody who did very little and about whom very little is popularly known.  He appeared in the movie for all of 4 minutes--under a different name.  I can see the humor potential in showing Grimlock's art being a childish unintelligent scribble, precisely because it feeds off those character traits everyone knows he has.  But when there's already so little to go on about Brawlastator, I think it's harder to justify.  --Thylacine 2000 00:54, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

"Brawlastator"-funny. Anyway, I was wondering, Why all the fuss? If all the administators want this image to be the Cyber Slammers one, why don't these people just accept they will not be able to get that image changed for good without using NSA to control the Web? Why make a fuss over the main image. It's a once in a while funny joke, and if you're so lazy that you're just going to look at a picture at the top of the page, and not read anything, you deserve to be confused. JimCappuccino 20:15, 12 May 2008 (UTC)JimCappuccino
 * Why not just hold a vote or something? That should settle it once and for all. (And yes, I saw Inferno'sQueen has previously suggested it, so please don't acuse me of being his sock. Wreck-Gar Rocks! 16:56, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

I have come to a conclusion-if this issue doen't resolve itself, this wiki will tear itself apart! No but seriously, a vote would be a good idea. JimCappuccino 23:31, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Just making trouble
I noticed at the store this weekend that, contrary to what some have claimed, Brawl does have official package art, and it does capture his badasseness. It is, of course... his Fast Action Battler incarnation. I would find switching out that for the Cyber Slammer art to be a deliciously obnoxious and yet still fitting response to the critics of the CS art, myself included. -- Repowers 18:48, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Weapons
What weapons he used and how many weapons he have other han his claw that it stab Jazz with?(MARV 2000 23:58, 10 March 2008 (UTC))
 * Well, he has the missle pods, main cannon, those two smaller cannons... I think maybe a machine gun or two. Basically he's a walking weapons platform. Semysane 03:30, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

A few things about Brawl
Not sure how much of this can actually be used, but...

Evil Tim 14:11, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
 * His hull is probably an M1 Panther II mine clearing vehicle; this would be very suitable for a prop tank with a fake turret, since it has no turret of its own. He still has part of the 'venus fly trap' mine clearing blade attachment, but the midsection (two forks and the 'dog bone' magnetic mine detonator) has been removed. The toy has the two forks present and correct, oddly enough. Glancing around the internet, at least part of the hull is apparently a truck chassis and it runs on a diesel engine. This makes sense, as a real Abrams uses a gas turbine with a 40-foot deadzone to the immediate rear where serious burns are likely, and the actors in scenes with the prop tank don't seem concerned with staying out of this area.
 * His entire turret appears to be fake. It shifts around on his hull in a manner suggesting it's made of something insubstantial like fibreglass, and in shots where he's moving, there's a fake gun travel lock fixing his gun forward. At 1:50:29 when he's firing, the travel lock vanishes, then reappears in the next shot; it's not adequately secured to actually prevent the traverse of a real Abrams turret, doesn't have an obvious hinge, and looks to actually be there to stop the entire turret falling off when the prop tank moves.
 * The main gun is definately fake. The recoil isn't timed correctly with the muzzle flash, isn't nearly enough when the prop tank fires (it should rock the way the CGI version does right before Jazz attacks it), and in the second barrel closeup the gun doesn't recoil at all. The optics above the main gun in the 'Devastator reporting' shot also have no lenses.
 * The side skirt armour...I swear I've seen it before on something, but the closest I can find is the Leopard C2 add-on armour kit. The turret form looks to be an approximation of what it would look like if you shoved the extra armour of the Leopard II onto an Abrams. I've definately seen an image of a Russian tank with an AA turret on top of the main one, though it looked kinda fake.
 * Brawl's toys use Diehl Type 570 P (NATO-standard) double-pin tank tracks with rubber pads; this is correct for any version of the actual Abrams. The movie version uses what seem to be rubber band tracks that look somewhat like them, the tracks on Brawl's shoulders in his robot mode are similarly strange-looking, seemingly all-steel with two thick bands holding them together. [[Media:Brawl_2007game_wolverine.jpg|The game]] has him using what appear to be single-pin steel treads with no pads and a single broad central band, a type of track usually associated with WW2-era tanks. Even the Cyber Slammer is more accurate than the game, and, bizarrely, the toys are more realistic than the movie itself. It's no wonder he can't remember his name, he has enough problems remembering what he looks like.
 * His armament: The main gun seems to end up as the unit on Brawl's right arm, which is a quad rocket launcher with at least one of the commander's twin machine guns mounted on it. This is borne out by Brawl firing missiles from his main gun in vehicle mode (instead of, um...the sabot rounds that are established to kill Transformers). I guess the rotary gun on his left is the coaxial chaingun (naughty Michael Bay, confusing a chaingun for a rotary gun), the rocket launchers are part of his altmode. It's not clear what happens to the smoke dischargers at the rear of his altmode turret when he transforms or if he can still use them. In the concept artwork when Brawl was still a regular M1A2, they would have ended up on his chest.
 * Leader Brawl has the useless leg-blades and M1A2-style smoke dischargers of the early concept art (molded to his torso in front of his arms, he also has the movie-correct ones on his turret), indicating his design was based at least partially on the original design.

Caption Bastardry
I think this article should be locked, as anonymous user [| 75.156.72.59] refuses to stop changing the picture captions, despite repeated warnings from myself and others. Xeno the Hedgehog 02:56, 13 May 2009 (UTC)